From eugen at leitl.org  Thu Dec  1 07:04:40 2011
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 08:04:40 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] [cryptography] trustable self-signed certs
	in a P2P	environment (freedombox)
Message-ID: <20111201070440.GX31847@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from Peter Eckersley <pde-lists at eff.org> -----

From: Peter Eckersley <pde-lists at eff.org>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:05:29 -0800
To: Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org>
Cc: cryptography at randombit.net
Subject: Re: [cryptography] trustable self-signed certs in a P2P environment
	(freedombox)
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)

Perspectives and Convergence are one effort to do this (what key do other
people see on this server?).  MonkeySphere is another (which humans in a web
of trust will vouch that this is the right key for this server?).

Perspectives/Convergence suffer from the problem that there is no way to tell
the difference between "the server was reinstalled and now has a new key" and
"the whole world sees an attack in progress".  The former is more common but
the second can also occurr.

MonkeySphere has the problem that the web of trust has to be enormous before
it's likely that you can build a chain to the admins of all of the websites
you visit.

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 01:30:03PM +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> 
> I presume many here are aware of the Eben Moglen-started
> FreedomBox initiative, which sets out to build a Debian 
> distro for lplug computers and similar which will package 
> many existing tools for the end result of an end-user 
> owned and operated, anonymizing and censorship-resistant 
> infrastructure.
> 
> One of the problems I did not see well-addressed yet is
> infrastructure for a cert trust network, which uses social
> graph information (FreedomBox is supposed to package a P2P
> alternative to Facebook & Co) for cert fingerprint validation.
> 
> Is anyone aware of existing code which caches SSL cert
> fingerprints and alerts when one suddenly changes, informing
> of a potential MITM in progress?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
> ______________________________________________________________
> ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
> 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
> _______________________________________________
> cryptography mailing list
> cryptography at randombit.net
> http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography

-- 
Peter Eckersley                            pde at eff.org
Technology Projects Director      Tel  +1 415 436 9333 x131
Electronic Frontier Foundation    Fax  +1 415 436 9993

----- End forwarded message -----
-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE


From eugen at leitl.org  Thu Dec  1 07:04:55 2011
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 08:04:55 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] [cryptography] trustable self-signed certs
	in a P2P	environment (freedombox)
Message-ID: <20111201070455.GY31847@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from Adam Back <adam at cypherspace.org> -----

From: Adam Back <adam at cypherspace.org>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:11:20 +0100
To: Peter Eckersley <pde-lists at eff.org>
Cc: Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org>, cryptography at randombit.net,
	Adam Back <adam at cypherspace.org>
Subject: Re: [cryptography] trustable self-signed certs in a P2P environment
	(freedombox)
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)

Its rather common for people with load balancers and lots of servers serving
the same domain to have multiple certs.

Same for certs to change to a new CA before expiry.  (Probably switched to a
new CA when adding more servers to the load balanced web server farm).

I installed cert patrol and the popups about this are frequent.  Any
solution that hopes for easy interim deployment needs to work with this.

Adam

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 12:05:29PM -0800, Peter Eckersley wrote:
> Perspectives and Convergence are one effort to do this (what key do other
> people see on this server?).  MonkeySphere is another (which humans in a web
> of trust will vouch that this is the right key for this server?).
>
> Perspectives/Convergence suffer from the problem that there is no way to tell
> the difference between "the server was reinstalled and now has a new key" and
> "the whole world sees an attack in progress".  The former is more common but
> the second can also occurr.
>
> MonkeySphere has the problem that the web of trust has to be enormous before
> it's likely that you can build a chain to the admins of all of the websites
> you visit.
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 01:30:03PM +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>>
>> I presume many here are aware of the Eben Moglen-started
>> FreedomBox initiative, which sets out to build a Debian
>> distro for lplug computers and similar which will package
>> many existing tools for the end result of an end-user
>> owned and operated, anonymizing and censorship-resistant
>> infrastructure.
>>
>> One of the problems I did not see well-addressed yet is
>> infrastructure for a cert trust network, which uses social
>> graph information (FreedomBox is supposed to package a P2P
>> alternative to Facebook & Co) for cert fingerprint validation.
>>
>> Is anyone aware of existing code which caches SSL cert
>> fingerprints and alerts when one suddenly changes, informing
>> of a potential MITM in progress?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
>> 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
>> _______________________________________________
>> cryptography mailing list
>> cryptography at randombit.net
>> http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
>
> -- 
> Peter Eckersley                            pde at eff.org
> Technology Projects Director      Tel  +1 415 436 9333 x131
> Electronic Frontier Foundation    Fax  +1 415 436 9993
> _______________________________________________
> cryptography mailing list
> cryptography at randombit.net
> http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography

----- End forwarded message -----
-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE


From eugen at leitl.org  Thu Dec  1 07:11:51 2011
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 08:11:51 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] [cryptography] trustable self-signed certs
	in a P2P	environment (freedombox)
Message-ID: <20111201071151.GZ31847@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from Trevor Perrin <trevp at trevp.net> -----

From: Trevor Perrin <trevp at trevp.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:26:38 -0800
To: Adam Back <adam at cypherspace.org>
Cc: cryptography at randombit.net
Subject: Re: [cryptography] trustable self-signed certs in a P2P environment
	(freedombox)

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Adam Back <adam at cypherspace.org> wrote:
> Its rather common for people with load balancers and lots of servers serving
> the same domain to have multiple certs.

> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 12:05:29PM -0800, Peter Eckersley wrote:
>> Perspectives/Convergence suffer from the problem that there is no way to
>> tell the difference between "the server was reinstalled and now has a new key"
>> and "the whole world sees an attack in progress".

There's a Convergence proposal to address the above issues, but it
requires some effort by the site:

https://github.com/moxie0/Convergence/wiki/TACK


Trevor
_______________________________________________
cryptography mailing list
cryptography at randombit.net
http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography

----- End forwarded message -----
-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE


From eugen at leitl.org  Thu Dec  1 21:03:42 2011
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 22:03:42 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] [liberationtech] Crypto Advocacy TED Talk
Message-ID: <20111201210342.GI31847@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com> -----

From: Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 01:38:33 -0500
To: Jeffrey Burdges <burdges at gmail.com>
Cc: liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Crypto Advocacy TED Talk

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jeffrey Burdges <burdges at gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Aside from arguing these point, there should be emphasis that "this ain't your daddy's PGP", meaning modern crypto packages have grown incredibly easy to use. ?Tor Browser Bundles are about the most user friendly thing in the world. ?Off-the-record messaging is almost a triviality in Adium, Jitsi, or other open source IM clients. ?Most mail readers have user friendly plugins for GPG. ?etc.

I've argued before that protocol designers have an ethical obligation
to include always-on-by-default cryptography whenever it isn't
contraindicated by other requirements? The primary idea being here
that the whole cost of cryptography to the user can be drastically
reduced when its properly integrated.

In particular, even unauthenticated cryptography provides absolute
immunity to passive attacks, invisible wiretapping dragnets, and gives
active attacks a serious risk of discovery.  And this protection can
be added to any realtime communication for _free_ and invisibly from
the users perspective.  (Of course, authentication is important? and
nothing unauthenticated should be advertised to the user as encrypted.
But the unavoidable user-costlyness of authentication shouldn't
prevent us from getting encryption).

One point on this subject that is overlooked is the network effect: I
may have good reasons why I should be using encryption, but it's very
hard to use it when most of my friends are not using it.  This is
related to your point (1), but not identical. Unrelated to cover, my
contacts can't use encryption with me if I don't use encryption? and
asking me to use it is a social/time cost that discourages them from
using it when they really should. Unless encryption is a norm they
won't even ask.

Related to your point (2) I'd add a more subtle argument: The
widespread use of unencrypted communications enables an _industry_ of
dragnet surveillance.  Iran pays FooBarNetworks to build a fleet of
passive eavesdropping widgets... The R&D cost gets sunk building it
and then FooBar has a new product in their price book which their
sales drones go peddling to everyone who will take them, including the
governments of countries which are less prone to coming up with these
initiatives on their own. In this manner, oppression gains a marketing
department.  Fairly modest decreases in the effectiveness of
surveillance can break this cycle by making the initial cost less
appealing and making the products harder to sell.

(And at the extreme limit: A few billion to build and maintain an
infrastructure of hundreds of thousands of optical taps and fast
stateless packet filters is a _lot_ more attractive when it will
intercept Almost Everything then when its mostly only useful for
traffic analysis).

Another point that I make when discussing this subject is that none of
us is really able to correctly assess the risks in making the choice
to use encryption:  We're not aware of secret lawful and unlawful
interception by governments (our own, and/or hostile ones) and
organized crime. We don't have a good feel for how massive collections
of data may be used against our interests in the future. And once
disclosed the information genie can't easily be rebottled. Encryption
is cheap insurance, and would be much cheaper if ubiquitously
deployed.
_______________________________________________
liberationtech mailing list
liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu

Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to:

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If you would like to receive a daily digest, click "yes" (once you click above) next to "would you like to receive list mail batched in a daily digest?"

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Please don't forget to follow us on http://twitter.com/#!/Liberationtech
----- End forwarded message -----
-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE


From dieter_thimm at yahoo.de  Fri Dec  2 11:18:15 2011
From: dieter_thimm at yahoo.de (Dieter_Thimm)
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 12:18:15 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Sorry, but is the Server down?
Message-ID: <4ED8B3F7.3040809@yahoo.de>

ping freedomboxfoundation.org
PING freedomboxfoundation.org (207.86.247.122) 56(84) bytes of data.
^C
--- freedomboxfoundation.org ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 4024ms

Best regards,

Dieter
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From erkan77 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  2 11:21:23 2011
From: erkan77 at gmail.com (Erkan Yilmaz)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:21:23 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Sorry, but is the Server down?
In-Reply-To: <4ED8B3F7.3040809@yahoo.de>
References: <4ED8B3F7.3040809@yahoo.de>
Message-ID: <CAD3HTdf6_7SPLbToFOGZSq=ySv9OLuCqcQ=CpTuQ9jF4_hCKQg@mail.gmail.com>

It's just you. http://freedomboxfoundation.org is up.

by http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 12:18 PM, Dieter_Thimm <dieter_thimm at yahoo.de> wrote:

> ping freedomboxfoundation.org
> PING freedomboxfoundation.org (207.86.247.122) 56(84) bytes of data.
> ^C
> --- freedomboxfoundation.org ping statistics ---
> 5 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 4024ms
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dieter
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
>



-- 
Find me at:
personal blog http://IaskQuestions.com

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From anagon at gmail.com  Fri Dec  2 22:31:36 2011
From: anagon at gmail.com (Leo Samulis)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 22:31:36 +0000
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Introducing DM-Steg: Deniable encryption for
	Linux
Message-ID: <CAO=0D2C-t-Bi94tDLMw3A4yttyMhQotTr597eHBgX4_Ymf=JMA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello folks,

I'd like to introduce DM-Steg. It's a Linux device mapper module that
provides deniable/steganographic encryption. DM-Steg provides similar
capabilities to Rubberhose (a now defunct project by Julian Assange et
al.) and more advanced deniable encryption than Truecrypt.

DM-Steg can be used to hide any number of strongly encrypted volumes
inside block devices or files. Without keys, there is no way for an
attacker to determine how many volumes a block device contains or even
if the block device is not simply random data. DM-Steg uses strong
encryption yet still achives good performance - up to 148 MB/s on my
core 2 duo, and only 1% slowdown on kernel compiles.

With GRUB support, DM-Steg will allow a physical computer to boot into
one of many 'personalities'. This could allow a computer to act as a
router or fileshare hub for a censorship-free network, yet if seized
by authorities, appear to be completely innocuous.

DM-Steg is working code and free software, so please head over to
http://dmsteg.sf.net and grab the tarball. For those interested in the
mechanics of DM-Steg, the .pdf file on the site should provide a good
overview.

I've taken this project as far as I want so I'd very much like it if
there's anyone in the OSS community who wants to take it further.
Don't be shy! :)

All the best,

- Leo


From melvincarvalho at gmail.com  Mon Dec  5 17:43:49 2011
From: melvincarvalho at gmail.com (Melvin Carvalho)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 18:43:49 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] The impending revolution of low-power quantum
	computers
Message-ID: <CAKaEYh+ACStKm2HmaLm77ZwWYtWG2o=0V_UryV90_m1GYe=fWg@mail.gmail.com>

By 2017, quantum physics will help reduce the energy consumption of
our computers and cellular phones by up to a factor of 100. For
research and industry, the power consumption of transistors is a key
issue. The next revolution will likely come from tunnel-FET, a
technology that takes advantage of a phenomenon referred to as
?quantum tunneling.? At the EPFL, but also in the laboratories of IBM
Zurich and the CEA-Leti in France, research is well underway. As part
of a special issue of Nature devoted to silicon, Adrian Ionescu, an
EPFL researcher, has written an article on the topic.

http://insciences.org/article.php?article_id=10551

Could be great news for freedomboxes?


From bhima.pandava at gmail.com  Mon Dec  5 19:31:18 2011
From: bhima.pandava at gmail.com (Bhima Pandava)
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:31:18 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Trusted Computing Modules
Message-ID: <4EDD1C06.1040803@gmail.com>

Ever since I read Mac OS X Internals, I have wondered if just how useful
these modules could be if full control of the device was provided to the
owner of the hardware, rather than the use it had as released.

The more I learn about FreedomBox, the more I think that some of the
problems that need to be solved could be by such a module.

FWIW Amit Singh has his work with these modules available online:
http://osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter10/tpm/

So... I wonder am I crazy, or would these really be useful?


From marc at let.de  Tue Dec  6 00:10:37 2011
From: marc at let.de (=?UTF-8?Q?=22Marc_Manthey_=28macbroadcast_=EF=A3=BF=29=22?=)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 01:10:37 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] techcrunch.: $99 Chinese Tablet Is MIPS-Based,
	Runs Android 4.0
Message-ID: <5D9E310B-5F64-4104-A201-F2B55E1830D9@let.de>

cool tool


http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/05/99-chinese-tablet-is-mips-based-runs-android-4-0/

http://www.ainovo.com/



greetings


marc



--  Les enfants teribbles - research / deployment
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50823 K?ln - Germany
Tel.:0049-221-29891489
Mobil:0049-1577-3329231
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certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).









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From Chris.Troutner at PACCAR.com  Tue Dec  6 14:36:37 2011
From: Chris.Troutner at PACCAR.com (Chris Troutner)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 06:36:37 -0800
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] The impending revolution of low-power
	quantum	computers
Message-ID: <EEBB2507A66F294ABBD398D1D55F945B06B40E98@PTCMTVMXM2.na.paccar.com>

I understand your point about quantum computers being the next big
thing, but just FYI, quantum tunneling isn't new. It's the principle on
which Zener diodes work. Just beware of buzz words.

Chris Troutner


From Chris.Troutner at PACCAR.com  Tue Dec  6 14:43:08 2011
From: Chris.Troutner at PACCAR.com (Chris Troutner)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 06:43:08 -0800
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Trusted Computing Modules
Message-ID: <EEBB2507A66F294ABBD398D1D55F945B06B40E9A@PTCMTVMXM2.na.paccar.com>

I did some work for a company a few years ago writing a Linux driver for
their TPM chip. From a software perspective, the TPMs rock.

However, the TPMs were put into consumer PCs in a very sneaky, stealthy
way and their primary focus was for DRM management. So I (personally)
think this might be reason why it never took off in open-source circles.

However, the TPM isn't as awesome as the industry consortium would lead
you to believe. It's pretty trival to solder a hardware sniffer onto the
data bus of the chip in order to reverse engineer access to the chip. If
you aren't worried about someone (the government) *physically* taking
control of your hardware, then the chip is pretty great. 

This was the conclusion I reached after several months of studying the
chip, however, that was several years ago and my memory may be foggy.

Chris Troutner
http://thesolarpowerexpert.com



From eugen at leitl.org  Tue Dec  6 15:00:17 2011
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 16:00:17 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Trusted Computing Modules
In-Reply-To: <EEBB2507A66F294ABBD398D1D55F945B06B40E9A@PTCMTVMXM2.na.paccar.com>
References: <EEBB2507A66F294ABBD398D1D55F945B06B40E9A@PTCMTVMXM2.na.paccar.com>
Message-ID: <20111206150017.GM31847@leitl.org>

On Tue, Dec 06, 2011 at 06:43:08AM -0800, Chris Troutner wrote:
> I did some work for a company a few years ago writing a Linux driver for
> their TPM chip. From a software perspective, the TPMs rock.

The problem is also trusting the design of the TPM. Most of
current TPM is implemented as a discrete smartcard-like chip
on a motherboard, and you'd probably trust 
e.g. http://www.g10code.com/p-card.html a little bit more
than any random G&D device. 

What's interesting about smartphones as a platform is that
they have a removable (micro) SIM slot so that you'd have
an optional, separable functionality for custom smartcards.

This is orthogonal to crypto accelerators, any FBX ARM box
can very much profit from crypto accelerators, especially
considering functions like SSL session setup which can
be useful for mesh routing over VPN tunnels over the Internet.
 
> However, the TPMs were put into consumer PCs in a very sneaky, stealthy
> way and their primary focus was for DRM management. So I (personally)
> think this might be reason why it never took off in open-source circles.
> 
> However, the TPM isn't as awesome as the industry consortium would lead
> you to believe. It's pretty trival to solder a hardware sniffer onto the
> data bus of the chip in order to reverse engineer access to the chip. If
> you aren't worried about someone (the government) *physically* taking
> control of your hardware, then the chip is pretty great. 
> 
> This was the conclusion I reached after several months of studying the
> chip, however, that was several years ago and my memory may be foggy.
> 
> Chris Troutner
> http://thesolarpowerexpert.com


From tarvid at ls.net  Tue Dec  6 15:19:51 2011
From: tarvid at ls.net (Jim Tarvid)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 10:19:51 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] The impending revolution of low-power
 quantum computers
In-Reply-To: <EEBB2507A66F294ABBD398D1D55F945B06B40E98@PTCMTVMXM2.na.paccar.com>
References: <EEBB2507A66F294ABBD398D1D55F945B06B40E98@PTCMTVMXM2.na.paccar.com>
Message-ID: <CANMXe0AMMnUwh7+ww2ARjMfe0fQa7ZkVYRowJE7ho2dO=YaBBA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Chris Troutner <Chris.Troutner at paccar.com>wrote:

> I understand your point about quantum computers being the next big
> thing, but just FYI, quantum tunneling isn't new. It's the principle on
> which Zener diodes work. Just beware of buzz words.
>
> Chris Troutner
>
> I remember Ike Blonder going through drums of rejects in the 1960s from
the diode manufacturers and finding a useful number that had tunnel
properties

Jim
-- 
Kindness Works!
Rev. Jim Tarvid, PCA
12897A Grays Pointe Road, Fairfax, Va 22033
703-657-0099 Condo
703-594-7297 Google Voice
38.8778239, -77.392696
http://ls.net
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From weaver at riseup.net  Tue Dec  6 21:22:54 2011
From: weaver at riseup.net (Weaver)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 13:22:54 -0800
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] New Unit.
Message-ID: <65a57f206ac37dbfdda01874fa87b6b6.squirrel@fruiteater.riseup.net>

Hello,

The only references I could find were German and apparently it runs
Ubuntu, but I'm sure we could work out something better than that.
Tremendous price, but that could be coming down:

http://www.silenthardware.de/2010/11/22/cirrus7-one/

http://www.cirrus7.com/produkte/cirrus7-one/overview

http://linuxundich.de/de/hardware/lautloser-design-pc-hohe-leistung-ubuntu-cirrus7-one/
Regards,

Weaver.
-- 


Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful.

? Lucius Ann?us Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.




From war2none at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  7 11:59:53 2011
From: war2none at hotmail.com (Matt Dodson)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 11:59:53 +0000
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] New Unit.
In-Reply-To: <65a57f206ac37dbfdda01874fa87b6b6.squirrel@fruiteater.riseup.net>
References: <65a57f206ac37dbfdda01874fa87b6b6.squirrel@fruiteater.riseup.net>
Message-ID: <DUB111-W1013280BE8B45B35D9E855193BB0@phx.gbl>





My response is the same as when I open a PC for the first time, 
what's that fan and heat-sink doing on the processor! I think ARM 
devices are going to be the best for FBx as they don't need fans and and
 heat-sinks, more energy efficient and less intrusive in peoples homes.

But that a side, The Currus7 looks a very handsome machine.

-m- 





> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 13:22:54 -0800
> From: weaver at riseup.net
> To: freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] New Unit.
> 
> Hello,
> 
> The only references I could find were German and apparently it runs
> Ubuntu, but I'm sure we could work out something better than that.
> Tremendous price, but that could be coming down:
> 
> http://www.silenthardware.de/2010/11/22/cirrus7-one/
> 
> http://www.cirrus7.com/produkte/cirrus7-one/overview
> 
> http://linuxundich.de/de/hardware/lautloser-design-pc-hohe-leistung-ubuntu-cirrus7-one/
> Regards,
> 
> Weaver.
> -- 
> 
> 
> Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
> by the wise as false,
> and by the rulers as useful.
> 
> ? Lucius Ann?us Seneca.
> 
> Terrorism, the new religion.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss 		 	   		  
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From eugen at leitl.org  Wed Dec  7 12:27:40 2011
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:27:40 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] New Unit.
In-Reply-To: <65a57f206ac37dbfdda01874fa87b6b6.squirrel@fruiteater.riseup.net>
References: <65a57f206ac37dbfdda01874fa87b6b6.squirrel@fruiteater.riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20111207122740.GG31847@leitl.org>

On Tue, Dec 06, 2011 at 01:22:54PM -0800, Weaver wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> The only references I could find were German and apparently it runs
> Ubuntu, but I'm sure we could work out something better than that.
> Tremendous price, but that could be coming down:

The specs are way overkill of 
http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/HardwareRequirements
and the price is definitely beyond what's
acceptable for end users (<200 USD, best
100 USD or lower).

You can probably pick up a used old G4
or Intel Mac mini for lots less, and
put a Debian on it (I just checked,
Debian still supports PowerPC).
 
> http://www.silenthardware.de/2010/11/22/cirrus7-one/
> 
> http://www.cirrus7.com/produkte/cirrus7-one/overview
> 
> http://linuxundich.de/de/hardware/lautloser-design-pc-hohe-leistung-ubuntu-cirrus7-one/
> Regards,
> 
> Weaver.


From tarvid at ls.net  Wed Dec  7 12:54:54 2011
From: tarvid at ls.net (Jim Tarvid)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 07:54:54 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] New Unit.
In-Reply-To: <DUB111-W1013280BE8B45B35D9E855193BB0@phx.gbl>
References: <65a57f206ac37dbfdda01874fa87b6b6.squirrel@fruiteater.riseup.net>
	<DUB111-W1013280BE8B45B35D9E855193BB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CANMXe0BKFCSUW8sUh5A2_jj5jjdK42b27+JRTYxp09bR2e+HeA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:59 AM, Matt Dodson <war2none at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> My response is the same as when I open a PC for the first time, what's
> that fan and heat-sink doing on the processor! I think ARM devices are
> going to be the best for FBx as they don't need fans and and heat-sinks,
> more energy efficient and less intrusive in peoples homes.
>
> But that a side, The Currus7 looks a very handsome machine.
>
> -m-
>

I built a server recently on a Foxconn R20-D4 with 2GB DDR2 and a used hard
disk and a low profile gigabit ethernet card for about $125. Installation
of Ubuntu 11.10 server by USB. Working on RADIUS now for use as a gateway
router. Not fanless but pretty quiet and all the power I need.

For personal use I would want a GUI desktop and one of the nettops would be
more functional. I don't see how to do this on an ARM based foundation.

Jim

> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 13:22:54 -0800
> > From: weaver at riseup.net
> > To: freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> > Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] New Unit.
>
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > The only references I could find were German and apparently it runs
> > Ubuntu, but I'm sure we could work out something better than that.
> > Tremendous price, but that could be coming down:
> >
> > http://www.silenthardware.de/2010/11/22/cirrus7-one/
> >
> > http://www.cirrus7.com/produkte/cirrus7-one/overview
> >
> >
> http://linuxundich.de/de/hardware/lautloser-design-pc-hohe-leistung-ubuntu-cirrus7-one/
> > Regards,
> >
> > Weaver.
> > --
> >
> >
> > Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
> > by the wise as false,
> > and by the rulers as useful.
> >
> > ? Lucius Ann?us Seneca.
> >
> > Terrorism, the new religion.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> > Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> >
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
>



-- 
Kindness Works!
Rev. Jim Tarvid, PCA
12897A Grays Pointe Road, Fairfax, Va 22033
703-657-0099 Condo
703-594-7297 Google Voice
38.8778239, -77.392696
http://ls.net
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From quiliro at congresolibre.org  Fri Dec  9 04:00:56 2011
From: quiliro at congresolibre.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Quiliro_Ord=F3=F1ez?=)
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:00:56 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] non-free on sources.list
Message-ID: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>

Hi.

I was going to install Freedombox on an old Pentium II machine. WhenI 
looked at the files I could see that 
http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=freedombox/freedom-maker.git;a=snapshot;h=fc778baa079d462f28273d8a4077dfda45ccc96f;sf=tgz 
has non-free  from Wheezy on sources.list. Why are those included?


From quiliro at congresolibre.org  Fri Dec  9 04:34:02 2011
From: quiliro at congresolibre.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Quiliro_Ord=F3=F1ez?=)
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:34:02 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] non-free on sources.list
In-Reply-To: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>
References: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>
Message-ID: <4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>

On 08/12/11 23:00, Quiliro Ord??ez wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I was going to install Freedombox on an old Pentium II machine. WhenI 
> looked at the files I could see that 
> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=freedombox/freedom-maker.git;a=snapshot;h=fc778baa079d462f28273d8a4077dfda45ccc96f;sf=tgz 
> has non-free  from Wheezy on sources.list. Why are those included?

Is it possible to run these on that hardware without non-free repos? Is 
it only for firmware for the Dreamplug?


From vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org  Fri Dec  9 05:25:37 2011
From: vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org (James Vasile)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 00:25:37 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] non-free on sources.list
In-Reply-To: <4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>
References: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>
	<4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>
Message-ID: <874nxaxqni.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:34:02 -0500, Quiliro Ord??ez <quiliro at congresolibre.org> wrote:
> On 08/12/11 23:00, Quiliro Ord??ez wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > I was going to install Freedombox on an old Pentium II machine. WhenI 
> > looked at the files I could see that 
> > http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=freedombox/freedom-maker.git;a=snapshot;h=fc778baa079d462f28273d8a4077dfda45ccc96f;sf=tgz 
> > has non-free  from Wheezy on sources.list. Why are those included?
> 
> Is it possible to run these on that hardware without non-free repos? Is 
> it only for firmware for the Dreamplug?

Hrm.  I don't think non-free is needed.  That might just be a mistake.


From vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org  Fri Dec  9 05:39:56 2011
From: vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org (James Vasile)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 00:39:56 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] non-free on sources.list
In-Reply-To: <4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>
References: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>
	<4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>
Message-ID: <871usexpzn.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

I just asked Bdale about it.  It seems the wireless firmware is nonfree.
There is also a nonfree wireless driver that is needed if you want to
run the wireless in host mode.

It is Bdale's belief that no other nonfree pacakges are there.


From quiliro at congresolibre.org  Fri Dec  9 06:18:02 2011
From: quiliro at congresolibre.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Quiliro_Ord=F3=F1ez?=)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:18:02 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] non-free on sources.list
In-Reply-To: <871usexpzn.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
References: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>
	<4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>
	<871usexpzn.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
Message-ID: <4EE1A81A.9040901@congresolibre.org>

On 09/12/11 00:39, James Vasile wrote:
> I just asked Bdale about it.  It seems the wireless firmware is nonfree.
> There is also a nonfree wireless driver that is needed if you want to
> run the wireless in host mode.
>
> It is Bdale's belief that no other nonfree pacakges are there.

Thank you very much James. By the way, congrats on you speech at Elevate.


From quiliro at congresolibre.org  Fri Dec  9 06:22:36 2011
From: quiliro at congresolibre.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Quiliro_Ord=F3=F1ez?=)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:22:36 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Freedombox software on i32
Message-ID: <4EE1A92C.5090700@congresolibre.org>

Is there documentation to run the same software as Freedombox on i32? I 
would like to test the software on several old boxes I have.I have found:

https://bitbucket.org/nickdaly/plugserver
http://freedomboxblog.nl/
http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=freedombox/freedom-maker.git;a=summary

Which of these would be closest to my objective?

Thanks.


From fiftyfour at waldevin.com  Fri Dec  9 13:09:47 2011
From: fiftyfour at waldevin.com (John Walsh)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:09:47 +1100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] PGP Keyserver
Message-ID: <2E275A81CB21409A884041B5E7FFA5EA@SUZIE>

Hi,
 
Copying my complete PGP key from one machine to another machine using the
import/export process seems quite tedious. Can you auto sync your complete
key from one machine to another using a keyserver?
 
I suspect a keyserver is only used to store and manage ones public key. I am
just getting confused between the option to import/export and keyserver
syncing.
 
Kind Regards
 
John
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From juca at members.fsf.org  Fri Dec  9 14:07:12 2011
From: juca at members.fsf.org (Felipe Sanches)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:07:12 -0200
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] non-free on sources.list
In-Reply-To: <4EE1A81A.9040901@congresolibre.org>
References: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>
	<4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>
	<871usexpzn.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<4EE1A81A.9040901@congresolibre.org>
Message-ID: <CAK6XL6AJ+7TEijVYu1dZN2zhFkGWNcyfsuX5KZrPeFHC4uvNDA@mail.gmail.com>

I think that it would be good software-freedom policy to keep the
repositories completely clean of non-free packages and then have clear
documentation stating which non-free packages are needed for each
additional features that are not supported by the fully-free system.
So, people who cannot afford to lack these features would have to
manually install the non-free stuff. It is important to leave non-free
packages to be explicetly installed manually by the users that desire
them so that every user of non-free packages is aware of its usage of
non-free stuff (and the reasons for needing that).

happy hacking,
Felipe Sanches


From vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org  Fri Dec  9 17:18:14 2011
From: vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org (James Vasile)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 12:18:14 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] PGP Keyserver
In-Reply-To: <2E275A81CB21409A884041B5E7FFA5EA@SUZIE>
References: <2E275A81CB21409A884041B5E7FFA5EA@SUZIE>
Message-ID: <87liqlwtnt.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:09:47 +1100, "John Walsh" <fiftyfour at waldevin.com> wrote:
Non-text part: multipart/mixed
Non-text part: multipart/alternative
> Hi,
>  
> Copying my complete PGP key from one machine to another machine using the
> import/export process seems quite tedious. Can you auto sync your complete
> key from one machine to another using a keyserver?
>  
> I suspect a keyserver is only used to store and manage ones public key. I am
> just getting confused between the option to import/export and keyserver
> syncing.
>  
> Kind Regards
>  
> John

Key servers are public.  You don't want to put your private key on one.
If you want to move your keyring from one machine to another, you can
copy over the .gnupg directory.

-J


From dkg at fifthhorseman.net  Fri Dec  9 17:25:36 2011
From: dkg at fifthhorseman.net (Daniel Kahn Gillmor)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 12:25:36 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] PGP Keyserver
In-Reply-To: <2E275A81CB21409A884041B5E7FFA5EA@SUZIE>
References: <2E275A81CB21409A884041B5E7FFA5EA@SUZIE>
Message-ID: <4EE24490.3030801@fifthhorseman.net>

On 12/09/2011 08:09 AM, John Walsh wrote:
> I suspect a keyserver is only used to store and manage ones public key.

keyservers are for public key material only.  even if they would accept
secret key material, you would be ill-advised to place your secret key
on a public server.

> I am
> just getting confused between the option to import/export and keyserver
> syncing.

export and import produce and consume data streams (files) that you can
manipulate any way you like.  sending and receiving from a keyserver
does a data exchange between the remote keyserver network and your local
keyring.

does that help?

	--dkg

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From eugen at leitl.org  Fri Dec  9 17:36:14 2011
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 18:36:14 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] PGP Keyserver
In-Reply-To: <87liqlwtnt.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
References: <2E275A81CB21409A884041B5E7FFA5EA@SUZIE>
	<87liqlwtnt.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
Message-ID: <20111209173614.GM31847@leitl.org>

On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 12:18:14PM -0500, James Vasile wrote:

> Key servers are public.  You don't want to put your private key on one.
> If you want to move your keyring from one machine to another, you can
> copy over the .gnupg directory.

By the way, what is the plan to manage the code-signing root?
Obviously freedomboxes would be really juicy MITM targets, so
what kind of physical security and compartment separation
for secrets are you planing?

How are software updates planned, for that matter? Self-hosted
via p2p or regular Debian depositories?

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE


From vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org  Fri Dec  9 17:40:08 2011
From: vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org (James Vasile)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 12:40:08 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] non-free on sources.list
In-Reply-To: <CAK6XL6AJ+7TEijVYu1dZN2zhFkGWNcyfsuX5KZrPeFHC4uvNDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>
	<4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>
	<871usexpzn.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<4EE1A81A.9040901@congresolibre.org>
	<CAK6XL6AJ+7TEijVYu1dZN2zhFkGWNcyfsuX5KZrPeFHC4uvNDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87iplpwsnb.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:07:12 -0200, Felipe Sanches <juca at members.fsf.org> wrote:
> I think that it would be good software-freedom policy to keep the
> repositories completely clean of non-free packages and then have clear
> documentation stating which non-free packages are needed for each
> additional features that are not supported by the fully-free system.
> So, people who cannot afford to lack these features would have to
> manually install the non-free stuff. It is important to leave non-free
> packages to be explicetly installed manually by the users that desire
> them so that every user of non-free packages is aware of its usage of
> non-free stuff (and the reasons for needing that).
> 
> happy hacking,
> Felipe Sanches

This is ultimately a usability vs freedom issue.  There's going to be a
trade-off either way unless somebody writes free software to replace the
wireless firmware and extends the free wireless driver to do host-ap
mode.


From tedks at riseup.net  Fri Dec  9 17:56:43 2011
From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 12:56:43 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] PGP Keyserver
In-Reply-To: <20111209173614.GM31847@leitl.org>
References: <2E275A81CB21409A884041B5E7FFA5EA@SUZIE>
	<87liqlwtnt.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<20111209173614.GM31847@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <1323453403.10809.1.camel@anglachel>

On Fri, 2011-12-09 at 18:36 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> 
> How are software updates planned, for that matter? Self-hosted
> via p2p or regular Debian depositories? 

You can do "regular Debian" repositories over p2p
(apt-transport-debtorrent, apt-p2p). These are centrally managed, but
"self-hosted" in a way. So it seems like this isn't really a dichotomy,
if I understood you correctly.
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From vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org  Fri Dec  9 18:18:09 2011
From: vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org (James Vasile)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 13:18:09 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] PGP Keyserver
In-Reply-To: <20111209173614.GM31847@leitl.org>
References: <2E275A81CB21409A884041B5E7FFA5EA@SUZIE>
	<87liqlwtnt.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<20111209173614.GM31847@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <87fwgtwqvy.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 18:36:14 +0100, Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 12:18:14PM -0500, James Vasile wrote:
> 
> > Key servers are public.  You don't want to put your private key on one.
> > If you want to move your keyring from one machine to another, you can
> > copy over the .gnupg directory.
> 
> By the way, what is the plan to manage the code-signing root?
> Obviously freedomboxes would be really juicy MITM targets, so
> what kind of physical security and compartment separation
> for secrets are you planing?

Physical security of end user FreedomBoxes is beyond our scope.
Separating secrets is a hard one to plan until we know better what
secrets there are and how apps will want to access them.  Our approach
to MITM attacks is to use GPG to verify identity wherever we can.

> 
> How are software updates planned, for that matter? Self-hosted
> via p2p or regular Debian depositories?

So far, the plan is to use the regular Debian mirror network, with sign
off from Bdale.

> 
> -- 
> Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
> ______________________________________________________________
> ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
> 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss


From jandrusk at gmail.com  Fri Dec  9 18:21:05 2011
From: jandrusk at gmail.com (Justin R. Andrusk)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 13:21:05 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] PGP Keyserver
In-Reply-To: <4EE24490.3030801@fifthhorseman.net>
References: <2E275A81CB21409A884041B5E7FFA5EA@SUZIE>
	<4EE24490.3030801@fifthhorseman.net>
Message-ID: <20111209182105.GA3401@hal9k>

On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 12:25:36PM -0500, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote:
> On 12/09/2011 08:09 AM, John Walsh wrote:
> > I suspect a keyserver is only used to store and manage ones public key.
> 
> keyservers are for public key material only.  even if they would accept
> secret key material, you would be ill-advised to place your secret key
> on a public server.
> 
> > I am
> > just getting confused between the option to import/export and keyserver
> > syncing.
> 
> export and import produce and consume data streams (files) that you can
> manipulate any way you like.  sending and receiving from a keyserver
> does a data exchange between the remote keyserver network and your local
> keyring.
> 
> does that help?
> 
> 	--dkg
> 
I would also recommend using a file integrity monitor on your system
such as AIDE to monitor any changes to your private key. 

Justin


> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss



From quiliro at congresolibre.org  Fri Dec  9 18:25:15 2011
From: quiliro at congresolibre.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Quiliro_Ord=F3=F1ez?=)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 13:25:15 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] non-free on sources.list
In-Reply-To: <87iplpwsnb.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
References: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>
	<4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>
	<871usexpzn.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<4EE1A81A.9040901@congresolibre.org>
	<CAK6XL6AJ+7TEijVYu1dZN2zhFkGWNcyfsuX5KZrPeFHC4uvNDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87iplpwsnb.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
Message-ID: <4EE2528B.4030609@congresolibre.org>

On 09/12/11 12:40, James Vasile wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:07:12 -0200, Felipe Sanches<juca at members.fsf.org>  wrote:
>> I think that it would be good software-freedom policy to keep the
>> repositories completely clean of non-free packages and then have clear
>> documentation stating which non-free packages are needed for each
>> additional features that are not supported by the fully-free system.
>> So, people who cannot afford to lack these features would have to
>> manually install the non-free stuff. It is important to leave non-free
>> packages to be explicetly installed manually by the users that desire
>> them so that every user of non-free packages is aware of its usage of
>> non-free stuff (and the reasons for needing that).
>>
>> happy hacking,
>> Felipe Sanches
> This is ultimately a usability vs freedom issue.  There's going to be a
> trade-off either way unless somebody writes free software to replace the
> wireless firmware and extends the free wireless driver to do host-ap
> mode.

Is this possible? What skills are needed for this? Could we collectively 
finance a payment for this (even if it could be a very small one)?



From vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org  Fri Dec  9 18:51:29 2011
From: vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org (James Vasile)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 13:51:29 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] non-free on sources.list
In-Reply-To: <4EE2528B.4030609@congresolibre.org>
References: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>
	<4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>
	<871usexpzn.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<4EE1A81A.9040901@congresolibre.org>
	<CAK6XL6AJ+7TEijVYu1dZN2zhFkGWNcyfsuX5KZrPeFHC4uvNDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87iplpwsnb.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<4EE2528B.4030609@congresolibre.org>
Message-ID: <87d3bxwpce.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 13:25:15 -0500, Quiliro Ord??ez <quiliro at congresolibre.org> wrote:
> On 09/12/11 12:40, James Vasile wrote:
> > On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:07:12 -0200, Felipe Sanches<juca at members.fsf.org>  wrote:
> >> I think that it would be good software-freedom policy to keep the
> >> repositories completely clean of non-free packages and then have clear
> >> documentation stating which non-free packages are needed for each
> >> additional features that are not supported by the fully-free system.
> >> So, people who cannot afford to lack these features would have to
> >> manually install the non-free stuff. It is important to leave non-free
> >> packages to be explicetly installed manually by the users that desire
> >> them so that every user of non-free packages is aware of its usage of
> >> non-free stuff (and the reasons for needing that).
> >>
> >> happy hacking,
> >> Felipe Sanches
> > This is ultimately a usability vs freedom issue.  There's going to be a
> > trade-off either way unless somebody writes free software to replace the
> > wireless firmware and extends the free wireless driver to do host-ap
> > mode.
> 
> Is this possible? What skills are needed for this? Could we collectively 
> finance a payment for this (even if it could be a very small one)?

There is a variety of information we would need that is not public.
Moreover, wireless chipsets change fast.  Trying to keep up with that
pace is not the point of this project, so I think we're unlikely to run
on that treadmill.

The efficient thing to do here is probably to keep the pressure up for
release of the non-public information and for manufacturers to choose
chipsets that have documentation so we can fix future platforms.  And
when a manufacturer does choose chipsets that can be freed, we should
buy those devices first.



From bdale at gag.com  Sat Dec 10 01:35:46 2011
From: bdale at gag.com (Bdale Garbee)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:35:46 -0700
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] non-free on sources.list
In-Reply-To: <CAK6XL6AJ+7TEijVYu1dZN2zhFkGWNcyfsuX5KZrPeFHC4uvNDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EE187F8.2060700@congresolibre.org>
	<4EE18FBA.1000902@congresolibre.org>
	<871usexpzn.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<4EE1A81A.9040901@congresolibre.org>
	<CAK6XL6AJ+7TEijVYu1dZN2zhFkGWNcyfsuX5KZrPeFHC4uvNDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <874nx9w6ml.fsf@gag.com>

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:07:12 -0200, Felipe Sanches <juca at members.fsf.org> wrote:
> I think that it would be good software-freedom policy to keep the
> repositories completely clean of non-free packages and then have clear
> documentation stating which non-free packages are needed for each
> additional features that are not supported by the fully-free system.

My question is what you mean by 'the repositories' in this context?
Debian already keeps non-free firmware in a separate repository that's
not enabled by default.

> So, people who cannot afford to lack these features would have to
> manually install the non-free stuff. It is important to leave non-free
> packages to be explicetly installed manually by the users that desire
> them so that every user of non-free packages is aware of its usage of
> non-free stuff (and the reasons for needing that).

Anyone who wants to install Debian themselves already has exactly this
behavior.  However, when we're building install images for a specific
hardware target like the Dreamplug that needs non-free firmware (which
is the only real use for freedom-maker right now), it seems appropriate
to include the required firmware in the image. 

Bdale
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From bdale at gag.com  Sat Dec 10 01:37:55 2011
From: bdale at gag.com (Bdale Garbee)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:37:55 -0700
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Freedombox software on i32
In-Reply-To: <4EE1A92C.5090700@congresolibre.org>
References: <4EE1A92C.5090700@congresolibre.org>
Message-ID: <871usdw6j0.fsf@gag.com>

On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:22:36 -0500, Quiliro Ord??ez <quiliro at congresolibre.org> wrote:
> Is there documentation to run the same software as Freedombox on i32? I 
> would like to test the software on several old boxes I have.I have found:
> 
> https://bitbucket.org/nickdaly/plugserver
> http://freedomboxblog.nl/
> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=freedombox/freedom-maker.git;a=summary
> 
> Which of these would be closest to my objective?

I can't speak to the other two, but it would be fairly easy to add ia32
support to freedom-maker.  Doing that has been on my to-do list for a
while, but I'm not sure when I'll get to it.  Patches always welcome!

Bdale
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From henry.story at bblfish.net  Sun Dec 11 10:09:28 2011
From: henry.story at bblfish.net (Henry Story)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 11:09:28 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Java
Message-ID: <0EB2B4B8-22C7-4C56-8E49-6A8A05AF3875@bblfish.net>

Hi,

  I would like to test out some very lightweight servers on the freedom box written in 
Java and see how much of an issue the JVM really is.  Java is GPL so I suppose it works 
fine on the Freedom Box right? Is this something I can install easily?

Henry
  
	
Social Web Architect
http://bblfish.net/



From robvanderhoeven at ziggo.nl  Sun Dec 11 12:28:34 2011
From: robvanderhoeven at ziggo.nl (Rob van der Hoeven)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:28:34 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Freedombox software on i32
In-Reply-To: <4EE1A92C.5090700@congresolibre.org>
References: <4EE1A92C.5090700@congresolibre.org>
Message-ID: <1323606514.5191.58.camel@suse4.site>

Hi Quiliro,

I'm the one behind freedomboxblog.nl. Here is some information that
might help:

First: i have implemented (tested) my FreedomBox architecture both on
ARM as on i32 systems (Atom 330). There are no special requirements,
it's "just" Debian packages and some scripts that i modified/wrote.

Second: Don't expect a setup program. You have to follow the
instructions given in my blog postings. (don't hesitate to ask me
questions if something is unclear)

Third: My FreedomBox architecture is according some readers of this list
a little bit over the top. I wanted an architecture which enabled me to
share my box with family and friends. I also wanted very strong
isolation of internet connected programs from the main system. To make
this possible i use light-weight virtualization. If you use my
architecture you basically get a shared-hosting provider setup with some
cloud properties. Maybe this kind of power is not needed for the
FreedomBox and will never make it into an official release.

Cheers,
Rob.

http://freedomboxblog.nl


On Fri, 2011-12-09 at 01:22 -0500, Quiliro Ord??ez wrote:
> Is there documentation to run the same software as Freedombox on i32? I 
> would like to test the software on several old boxes I have.I have found:
> 
> https://bitbucket.org/nickdaly/plugserver
> http://freedomboxblog.nl/
> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=freedombox/freedom-maker.git;a=summary
> 
> Which of these would be closest to my objective?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss




From henry.story at bblfish.net  Sun Dec 11 13:05:30 2011
From: henry.story at bblfish.net (Henry Story)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 14:05:30 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Java
In-Reply-To: <4EE49C21.2010002@pozimski.eu>
References: <0EB2B4B8-22C7-4C56-8E49-6A8A05AF3875@bblfish.net>
	<4EE49C21.2010002@pozimski.eu>
Message-ID: <44178B44-DAC0-40FC-B6BD-046873316CC4@bblfish.net>


On 11 Dec 2011, at 13:03, Helmut Pozimski wrote:

> Am 11.12.2011 11:09, schrieb Henry Story:
>>  I would like to test out some very lightweight servers on the freedom box written in 
>> Java and see how much of an issue the JVM really is.  Java is GPL so I suppose it works 
>> fine on the Freedom Box right? Is this something I can install easily?
> Sure, just install the package openjdk-6-jre-headless.

Thanks, just wanted to know before I bought the box and went to Berlin's 28c3

http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/wiki/Workshops/Freedombox_Home_Servers#Who

Hope to meet some of you there,

	Henry

> 
> Regards
> Helmut
> 

Social Web Architect
http://bblfish.net/



From robvanderhoeven at ziggo.nl  Sun Dec 11 13:16:41 2011
From: robvanderhoeven at ziggo.nl (Rob van der Hoeven)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 14:16:41 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] freedomboxblog.nl partially black-listed by
	Google
Message-ID: <1323609401.5191.83.camel@suse4.site>

Hi Folks,

As proud owner of a blog about the FreedomBox i regular check my "Google
rating". I do a search for freedombox and check which resulting page has
a link to one of my postings. Until yesterday i always had an article
mentioned in the first 5 pages with results. Yesterday i could not find
any posting mentioned before page 29 of the results. Looks like my site
has been partially black-listed by Google. I say partially because
double worded searches like the ones below still work.

freedombox architecture -> page 1
freedombox wordpress    -> page 1
freedombox dns          -> page 1

This is all very strange. The more so if you do a search for freedombox
on Yahoo and Bing. Both have the first link to my site on page 2.

This behavior by Google reminds me once again why it is so important to
develop a FreedomBox!

Cheers,
Rob.

http://freedomboxblog.nl




From eugen at leitl.org  Mon Dec 12 10:42:04 2011
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 11:42:04 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] PGP Keyserver
In-Reply-To: <87fwgtwqvy.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
References: <2E275A81CB21409A884041B5E7FFA5EA@SUZIE>
	<87liqlwtnt.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<20111209173614.GM31847@leitl.org>
	<87fwgtwqvy.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
Message-ID: <20111212104204.GA31847@leitl.org>

On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 01:18:09PM -0500, James Vasile wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 18:36:14 +0100, Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 12:18:14PM -0500, James Vasile wrote:
> > 
> > > Key servers are public.  You don't want to put your private key on one.
> > > If you want to move your keyring from one machine to another, you can
> > > copy over the .gnupg directory.
> > 
> > By the way, what is the plan to manage the code-signing root?
> > Obviously freedomboxes would be really juicy MITM targets, so
> > what kind of physical security and compartment separation
> > for secrets are you planing?
> 
> Physical security of end user FreedomBoxes is beyond our scope.

No, I meant how will you handle the signing key for your packages.
Because of the sensitive nature there will be considerable incentives
on part of many to get hold of the master key (both to 0wn
individual freedomboxes or to mass-brick the entire alternet by
compromising the depositories and publishing correctly signed
malicious security updates).

I strongly suggest that handling of the code-signing and secret-handling
part will be given some thought. Both physical security and whether
the signing will be done on air-gapped machines or at least in provably
secured compartments.

> Separating secrets is a hard one to plan until we know better what
> secrets there are and how apps will want to access them.  Our approach
> to MITM attacks is to use GPG to verify identity wherever we can.

I presume if not opportunistic end-to-end encryption between boxes
there will be VPN tunnels (OpenVPN or tinc). SSL cert fingerprints
should be cached and given treatment like Firefox' Certificate
Patrol/Convergence.

Particularly, if you're occupying the same ecologic niche as
Facebook you have access to social graph information to verify trust by
out of band signalling ("hey, your snakeoil cert fingerprint
just changed, what's up?").
 
> > 
> > How are software updates planned, for that matter? Self-hosted
> > via p2p or regular Debian depositories?
> 
> So far, the plan is to use the regular Debian mirror network, with sign
> off from Bdale.

Will Bdale be the guy in charge of the signing key?

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE


From marc at let.de  Mon Dec 12 23:58:33 2011
From: marc at let.de (=?UTF-8?Q?=22Marc_Manthey_=28macbroadcast_=EF=A3=BF=29=22?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 00:58:33 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Fwd: [liberationtech] Neelie Kroes launched No
	Disconnect Strategy with copy paste minister Karl Theodor zu
	Guttenberg
References: <4EE638A5.3010207@lxdesystems.com>
Message-ID: <657370B3-23B5-4419-AE5C-51901FC995F1@let.de>

unbelivable, need to share this



Begin forwarded message:

> today EU-Commissioner Neelie Kroes launched an initiative to help net
> dissidents abroad together with the CSIS.org lobbyist Karl Theodor zu
> Guttenberg, a former German defense minister,
>
> http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/11/1525
> http://ec.europa.eu/avservices/player/streaming.cfm?type=ebsvod&sid=192684
>
> Media coverage in Germany was pretty strong as the controversial  
> former
> minister zu Guttenberg still polarises the public in the aftermath of
> his phd forgery scandal, and his inappropriate late resignation.
>
> CSIS.org funding sources are undisclosed. For this project zu  
> Guttenberg
> just receives travel refunds according to the EU spokesperson.
> Officially, according to Kroes spokesperson Ryan Heath CSIS is not
> behind the project, was however listed as his affiliation at the
> European Commission press conference.
>
> We had recently a discussion on accepting funds from defense  
> industries,
> I would add that alleged ties may endanger dissidents who use these  
> tools.
>
> --- A
>
> "The "No Disconnect strategy" will assist people in four ways:
>
>    Developing and providing technological tools to enhance privacy and
> security of people living in non-democratic regimes when using ICT.
>
>    Educating and raising awareness of activists about the  
> opportunities
> and risks of ICT. In particular assisting activists to make best use  
> of
> tools such as social networks and blogs while raising awareness of
> surveillance risks when communicating via ICT.
>
>    Gathering high quality intelligence about what is happening "on the
> ground" in order to monitor the level of surveillance and censorship  
> at
> a given time, in a given place.
>
>    Cooperation. Developing a practical way to ensure that all
> stakeholders can share information on their activity and promote
> multilateral action and building cross-regional cooperation to protect
> human rights."
> _______________________________________________
> liberationtech mailing list
> liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu
>
> Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to:
>
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
> If you would like to receive a daily digest, click "yes" (once you  
> click above) next to "would you like to receive list mail batched in  
> a daily digest?"
>
> You will need the user name and password you receive from the list  
> moderator in monthly reminders.
>
> Should you need immediate assistance, please contact the list  
> moderator.
>
> Please don't forget to follow us on http://twitter.com/#!/ 
> Liberationtech

--  Les enfants teribbles - research / deployment
Marc Manthey- Vogelsangerstrasse 97
50823 K?ln - Germany
Tel.:0049-221-29891489
Mobil:0049-1577-3329231
web: http://let.de
project : http://stattfernsehen.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/macbroadcast/
facebook: http://www.facebook.com/opencu

Please think about your responsibility towards our environment: Each  
printed e-mail causes about 0.3 grams of CO2 per page.

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and  
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).









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From fiftyfour at waldevin.com  Tue Dec 13 07:05:59 2011
From: fiftyfour at waldevin.com (John Walsh)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:05:59 +1100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Java
In-Reply-To: <44178B44-DAC0-40FC-B6BD-046873316CC4@bblfish.net>
References: <0EB2B4B8-22C7-4C56-8E49-6A8A05AF3875@bblfish.net><4EE49C21.2010002@pozimski.eu>
	<44178B44-DAC0-40FC-B6BD-046873316CC4@bblfish.net>
Message-ID: <39EB1C4B8A374CF0863658B327AF58C2@SUZIE>

Hi Henry,
I followed your post to the Lifeshare video. It's so cool the way you just
drag and drop a FOAF profile from another website onto Lifeshare to add a
friend. This means your friends do not have to have Lifeshare, only a FOAF
profile. 

So sweet.

fiftyfour

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> freedombox-discuss-bounces+fiftyfour=waldevin.com at lists.alioth
.debian.org [mailto:freedombox-discuss->
bounces+fiftyfour=waldevin.com at lists.alioth.debian.org] On 
> Behalf Of Henry Story
> Sent: Monday, 12 December 2011 12:06 AM
> To: freedombox list
> Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Java
> 
> 
> On 11 Dec 2011, at 13:03, Helmut Pozimski wrote:
> 
> > Am 11.12.2011 11:09, schrieb Henry Story:
> >>  I would like to test out some very lightweight servers on the 
> >> freedom box written in Java and see how much of an issue the JVM 
> >> really is.  Java is GPL so I suppose it works fine on the 
> Freedom Box right? Is this something I can install easily?
> > Sure, just install the package openjdk-6-jre-headless.
> 
> Thanks, just wanted to know before I bought the box and went 
> to Berlin's 28c3
> 
> http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/wiki/Workshops/Freedombox_H
> ome_Servers#Who
> 
> Hope to meet some of you there,
> 
> 	Henry
> 
> > 
> > Regards
> > Helmut
> > 
> 
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedo
mbox-discuss



From eugen at leitl.org  Tue Dec 13 07:27:43 2011
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 08:27:43 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Fwd: [liberationtech] Neelie
	Kroes	launched No Disconnect Strategy with copy paste
	minister Karl	Theodor zu Guttenberg
In-Reply-To: <657370B3-23B5-4419-AE5C-51901FC995F1@let.de>
References: <4EE638A5.3010207@lxdesystems.com>
	<657370B3-23B5-4419-AE5C-51901FC995F1@let.de>
Message-ID: <20111213072742.GX31847@leitl.org>

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 12:58:33AM +0100, "Marc Manthey (macbroadcast ?)" wrote:
> unbelivable, need to share this

EU, the superfund site for toxic national politicians.



From fiftyfour at waldevin.com  Tue Dec 13 08:27:20 2011
From: fiftyfour at waldevin.com (John Walsh)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 19:27:20 +1100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Web of Trust Questions
Message-ID: <A58A795E7BC94A0E9909979419415D6F@SUZIE>

Hi Everybody,
 
In the web of trust (WOT), I can create my own identity/key as opposed to a
Certificate Authority managing my identity/key. I could bring my key to a
key signing party with proof of identity. Let's say Fred was at the key
signing party, he checks my proof of identity and signs my key. My signed
key is uploaded to a key server creating a chain of trust with Fred and the
people who have signed Fred's key etc.
 
If I go to Bob's website (WOT cert), Bob checks my credentials through the
web of trust, i.e. only if there is a chain of trust between Bob's key and
my key will Bob grant me access to his site, otherwise I will be refused
access. Presumably, at the same time my browser will check there is a chain
of trust between my key and Bob's key and if there is no chain of trust I
will get a warning message, otherwise I will proceed as normal.
 
The web of trust is not really a web of trust, but a network of identity
checks, which is similar to Certificate Authorities. Firefox is loaded with
CA's Mozilla trusts, but I don't know them from Adam, so there is no real
reason I should trust them. Now, I would prefer to choose my own trust
authorities, who wouldn't necessarily be everybody who has signed my key.
For example, I wouldn't like my key to follow a chain of trust starting with
the black sheep in my family because you can't choose your family
 
So, does the WOT follow a chain of trust of ALWAYS using everybody who has
signed my key or can I choose my own trust authorities/anchors?
 
Firefox's options allow you to import certificates. Can I add my own "web of
trust authorities/certificates" to Firefox, which would have priority over
Mozilla's chosen CA's? Please also confirm that I just import the
certificates from key servers of those I trust.
 
Kind Regards
 
fiftyfour
 
 
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From henry.story at bblfish.net  Tue Dec 13 08:53:27 2011
From: henry.story at bblfish.net (Henry Story)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 09:53:27 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Java
In-Reply-To: <39EB1C4B8A374CF0863658B327AF58C2@SUZIE>
References: <0EB2B4B8-22C7-4C56-8E49-6A8A05AF3875@bblfish.net><4EE49C21.2010002@pozimski.eu>
	<44178B44-DAC0-40FC-B6BD-046873316CC4@bblfish.net>
	<39EB1C4B8A374CF0863658B327AF58C2@SUZIE>
Message-ID: <9AB90609-ED4C-40C3-84C3-3A203D9C2C21@bblfish.net>


On 13 Dec 2011, at 08:05, John Walsh wrote:

> Hi Henry,
> I followed your post to the Lifeshare video. It's so cool the way you just
> drag and drop a FOAF profile from another website onto Lifeshare to add a
> friend. This means your friends do not have to have Lifeshare, only a FOAF
> profile. 

thanks. I suppose since John mentions it, I put up a quick video of how to
transform a centralised social network written by some students into a 
decentralised social network. 

	http://bblfish.net/blog/2011/11/11/

We're only at the first part, but it should give people some ideas to see
that it is not that difficult technically. 

  Btw, we also have a new WebID spec out  http://webid.info/spec 
with a lot clearer language, better conciser ontology, and easy to understand
diagrams. (I hope). If you looked at it before you should look again.

	Henry


> 
> So sweet.
> 
> fiftyfour
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: 
>> freedombox-discuss-bounces+fiftyfour=waldevin.com at lists.alioth
> .debian.org [mailto:freedombox-discuss->
> bounces+fiftyfour=waldevin.com at lists.alioth.debian.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Henry Story
>> Sent: Monday, 12 December 2011 12:06 AM
>> To: freedombox list
>> Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Java
>> 
>> 
>> On 11 Dec 2011, at 13:03, Helmut Pozimski wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 11.12.2011 11:09, schrieb Henry Story:
>>>> I would like to test out some very lightweight servers on the 
>>>> freedom box written in Java and see how much of an issue the JVM 
>>>> really is.  Java is GPL so I suppose it works fine on the 
>> Freedom Box right? Is this something I can install easily?
>>> Sure, just install the package openjdk-6-jre-headless.
>> 
>> Thanks, just wanted to know before I bought the box and went 
>> to Berlin's 28c3
>> 
>> http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/wiki/Workshops/Freedombox_H
>> ome_Servers#Who
>> 
>> Hope to meet some of you there,
>> 
>> 	Henry
>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Helmut
>>> 
>> 
>> Social Web Architect
>> http://bblfish.net/
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
>> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
>> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedo
> mbox-discuss
> 

Social Web Architect
http://bblfish.net/



From melvincarvalho at gmail.com  Tue Dec 13 11:16:44 2011
From: melvincarvalho at gmail.com (Melvin Carvalho)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 12:16:44 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Web of Trust Questions
In-Reply-To: <A58A795E7BC94A0E9909979419415D6F@SUZIE>
References: <A58A795E7BC94A0E9909979419415D6F@SUZIE>
Message-ID: <CAKaEYh+nn4M26jwuUvUs6gOpbOC36FB9N8ej0r3M4jpAO7Gciw@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 December 2011 09:27, John Walsh <fiftyfour at waldevin.com> wrote:
> Hi Everybody,
>
> In the web of trust (WOT),?I can create?my own identity/key as opposed to a
> Certificate Authority managing my identity/key.?I could?bring?my key to a
> key signing party with proof of identity.?Let's say Fred was?at the key
> signing party, he?checks?my proof of identity and signs?my key.?My
> signed?key is uploaded to a key server creating a chain of trust with Fred
> and the people who have signed Fred's key etc.
>
> If?I go to?Bob's website (WOT cert), Bob checks?my credentials?through the
> web of trust,?i.e.?only if there is a chain of trust between Bob's key and
> my key will Bob grant me access to his site, otherwise I will be refused
> access.?Presumably, at the same time my browser will check there is a chain
> of trust between?my key and?Bob's key and if there is no chain of trust I
> will get a warning message, otherwise I will proceed as normal.
>
> The web of trust is?not really a web of trust, but a network of?identity
> checks,?which is similar to Certificate Authorities.?Firefox is loaded with
> CA's Mozilla trusts, but I don't know them from Adam, so?there is no real
> reason?I should?trust them. Now, I would?prefer to choose?my own?trust
> authorities,?who wouldn't necessarily be everybody who has signed my key.
> For example,?I wouldn't like my key to follow a chain of trust starting with
> the black sheep in my family because you can't choose your family
>
> So, does the WOT follow a chain of trust of ALWAYS using everybody who has
> signed my key or can I choose my own trust authorities/anchors?
>
> Firefox's options allow you?to import certificates. Can I add my own "web of
> trust authorities/certificates" to Firefox, which would have priority
> over?Mozilla's chosen CA's? Please also confirm that?I just import the
> certificates from key servers of those I trust.

I use my GPG key also as my X.509 certificate so can participate in
the GPG WOT and also "Web" based WOT.  So I can access control my
pages / files based on the identity that is requesting it, and some
public access for anonymous users.

Sadly, the WWW WOT is quite undeveloped at this stage.  The biggest
GPG WOT (strong-set) is 40,000 big, it should be possible to develop a
complementary graph on the web (the web was designed to scale very
large graphs) too.  Also we should be able to include the tel: URI
scheme to start to include the 5.3 billion mobile users.

Hopefully something we can improve in 2012, I've been looking at the
bitcoin otc WOT, which also combines with GPG, ,and thinking about
scaling it to the whole web : http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.php

>
> Kind Regards
>
> fiftyfour
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss


From tomaz.solc at tablix.org  Tue Dec 13 17:04:16 2011
From: tomaz.solc at tablix.org (=?windows-1252?Q?Toma=9E_=8Aolc?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:04:16 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Web of Trust Questions
In-Reply-To: <A58A795E7BC94A0E9909979419415D6F@SUZIE>
References: <A58A795E7BC94A0E9909979419415D6F@SUZIE>
Message-ID: <4EE78590.7020309@tablix.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 13. 12. 2011 09:27, John Walsh wrote:
> So, does the WOT follow a chain of trust of ALWAYS using everybody who
> has signed my key or can I choose my own trust authorities/anchors?

GPG allows you to tell it how much you trust someone to make proper
verifications before signing another key (and so introducing someone
into the web of trust). See "trust" command under the --edit-key in GPG
man page:

http://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual.html#AEN346

But I'm not sure how this setting is used or what command you need to
use to see how much you can trust a key based on that info.

Regards
Toma?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iD8DBQFO54WQsAlAlRhL9q8RAoSiAJ42TauhpRjRfmLXaNa7+oAwh2YUEACgtUil
3hCCAUtJRZu+ZLO4mwY0uJo=
=z7wN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From graham.rick at gmail.com  Tue Dec 13 17:10:44 2011
From: graham.rick at gmail.com (Rick)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 12:10:44 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] techcrunch.: $99 Chinese Tablet Is
 MIPS-Based, Runs Android 4.0
In-Reply-To: <5D9E310B-5F64-4104-A201-F2B55E1830D9@let.de>
References: <5D9E310B-5F64-4104-A201-F2B55E1830D9@let.de>
Message-ID: <CAGDjS3cFKXO7=VSzTssTS4F7USfUvymadwr6K9a+p0PqSYxF+g@mail.gmail.com>

I have one of these in my hand.

It is a solid unit and snappy.  The article below suggested that it
couldn't possibly be well built for $99, but it is.

It has Android 2.2 on it, apparently I can update.  I don't have much time
to spend with it now, but I will play with it over the holidays.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 7:10 PM, "Marc Manthey (macbroadcast ?)" <marc at let.de
> wrote:

> cool tool
>
>
>
> http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/05/99-chinese-tablet-is-mips-based-runs-android-4-0/
>
> http://www.ainovo.com/
>
>
>
> greetings
>
>
> marc
>
>
>
> --  Les enfants teribbles - research / deployment
> Marc Manthey- Vogelsangerstrasse 97
> 50823 K?ln - Germany
> Tel.:0049-221-29891489
> Mobil:0049-1577-3329231
> web: http://let.de
> <http://let.de/>project : http://stattfernsehen.com
> twitter: http://twitter.com/macbroadcast/
> facebook: http://www.facebook.com/opencu
>
> Please think about your responsibility towards our
> environment: Each printed e-mail causes about 0.3 grams of CO2 per page.
>
> Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
> certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
>



-- 
*If the bible proves the existence of God, then Superman comics prove the
existence of Superman.*
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From robvanderhoeven at ziggo.nl  Wed Dec 14 09:29:14 2011
From: robvanderhoeven at ziggo.nl (Rob van der Hoeven)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:29:14 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] 24-Year-Old Asks Facebook For His Data, Gets 1,
	200 PDFs
Message-ID: <1323854954.5255.5.camel@suse4.site>

The message subject says it all. Read all about it at:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/12/13/2321224/24-year-old-asks-facebook-for-his-data-gets-1200-pdfs

Note: this service is only available in the EU.

Rob.
http://freedomboxblog.nl







From benjamin at lebsanft.org  Wed Dec 14 09:35:02 2011
From: benjamin at lebsanft.org (Benjamin Lebsanft)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:35:02 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] 24-Year-Old Asks Facebook For His Data,
 Gets 1, 200 PDFs
In-Reply-To: <1323854954.5255.5.camel@suse4.site>
References: <1323854954.5255.5.camel@suse4.site>
Message-ID: <4EE86DC6.50101@lebsanft.org>

Hi,

> Note: this service is only available in the EU.

AFAIK they removed this and provide downloadable data instead now.

Bye
Ben


From tzewang.dorje at gmail.com  Wed Dec 14 09:45:07 2011
From: tzewang.dorje at gmail.com (Dan Ballance)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:45:07 +0000
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] 24-Year-Old Asks Facebook For His Data,
 Gets 1, 200 PDFs
In-Reply-To: <4EE86DC6.50101@lebsanft.org>
References: <1323854954.5255.5.camel@suse4.site> <4EE86DC6.50101@lebsanft.org>
Message-ID: <CABgXHn9a+WJ3Gq0FOUgcJA=ScY30=H=VXaQC9OQRycHiX49HJQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think there's a legal right to get *all* of your data under European
law. They've removed the on-line request form, but you can still
request via email. In fact he's encouraging us all to do so:
http://europe-v-facebook.org/EN/Get_your_Data_/get_your_data_.html
datarequests at fb.com
Example mail content:
To whom it may concern.
I wish to make an access request under the Data Protection Acts 1988
and 2003 for a copy of any information you keep about me, on computer
or in manual form. ?I am making this request under section 4 of the
Data Protection Acts.My name(s):My e-mail(s):My birthdate:Further
Information:

dan :)

On 14 December 2011 09:35, Benjamin Lebsanft <benjamin at lebsanft.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> Note: this service is only available in the EU.
>
> AFAIK they removed this and provide downloadable data instead now.
>
> Bye
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss


From dkg at fifthhorseman.net  Wed Dec 14 11:55:54 2011
From: dkg at fifthhorseman.net (Daniel Kahn Gillmor)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 06:55:54 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Web of Trust Questions
In-Reply-To: <CAKaEYh+nn4M26jwuUvUs6gOpbOC36FB9N8ej0r3M4jpAO7Gciw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A58A795E7BC94A0E9909979419415D6F@SUZIE>
	<CAKaEYh+nn4M26jwuUvUs6gOpbOC36FB9N8ej0r3M4jpAO7Gciw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EE88ECA.1080806@fifthhorseman.net>

On 12/13/2011 06:16 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:

> bitcoin otc WOT, which also combines with GPG, ,and thinking about
> scaling it to the whole web : http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.php

Someone into bitcoin-otc brought a proposal for scaling their "web of
trust" up on sks-devel.  I didn't think it was very well specified or
even particularly well thought-through.

here's the thread:

http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/sks-devel/2011-12/msg00010.html

i remain quite dubious about supposedly general-purpose global "ranking"
schemes.  They usually seem to me to be either under-specified or
internally inconsistent.

	--dkg

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From melvincarvalho at gmail.com  Wed Dec 14 12:28:53 2011
From: melvincarvalho at gmail.com (Melvin Carvalho)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 13:28:53 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Web of Trust Questions
In-Reply-To: <4EE88ECA.1080806@fifthhorseman.net>
References: <A58A795E7BC94A0E9909979419415D6F@SUZIE>
	<CAKaEYh+nn4M26jwuUvUs6gOpbOC36FB9N8ej0r3M4jpAO7Gciw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EE88ECA.1080806@fifthhorseman.net>
Message-ID: <CAKaEYhK5LkWPj2=EEstLnLEf3acyzhead_O_mE_P+hdt=0gUNg@mail.gmail.com>

On 14 December 2011 12:55, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg at fifthhorseman.net> wrote:
> On 12/13/2011 06:16 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>
>> bitcoin otc WOT, which also combines with GPG, ,and thinking about
>> scaling it to the whole web : http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.php
>
> Someone into bitcoin-otc brought a proposal for scaling their "web of
> trust" up on sks-devel. ?I didn't think it was very well specified or
> even particularly well thought-through.
>
> here's the thread:
>
> http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/sks-devel/2011-12/msg00010.html
>
> i remain quite dubious about supposedly general-purpose global "ranking"
> schemes. ?They usually seem to me to be either under-specified or
> internally inconsistent.

Thanks for the pointer.

Agree it definitely needs work.  But if standardized in the right way
it could compliment other WOTs in a way that can really scale.

Arguably the biggest web of trust now is the facebook friends network,
though there are privacy issues there.  We need something that can go
viral like facebook, but maintain privacy and data freedom.

W3C has been interested in trust for 2 decades, indeed trust is the
ultimate goal in the WWW "layer cake", but it has yet to find a really
compelling solution.  Perhaps the bitcoin wot can be fleshed out a bit
more in 2012.

>
> ? ? ? ?--dkg
>


From quiliro at congresolibre.org  Wed Dec 14 15:32:04 2011
From: quiliro at congresolibre.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Quiliro_Ord=F3=F1ez?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:32:04 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Previous use of Freedombox name for another
	project
Message-ID: <4EE8C174.1060809@congresolibre.org>

http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw070308


From nick.m.daly at gmail.com  Wed Dec 14 18:36:10 2011
From: nick.m.daly at gmail.com (Nick Daly)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 12:36:10 -0600
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Previous use of Freedombox name for
	another project
In-Reply-To: <4EE8C174.1060809@congresolibre.org>
References: <4EE8C174.1060809@congresolibre.org>
Message-ID: <CAM-YhhDTr8GCEdOEZSd8nC7=k-Lzz_1KTs6v3ZCyfbtn1hjpxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Quiliro Ord??ez wrote:
> http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw070308

A project that's apparently been defunct for quite a while (2002 -
2007?), with only 2k hits per Google [0].  The website isn't even
registered anymore [1], so they'd be doing a really bad job of
protecting any trademark, if you're worried about that.

Sad to see such an interesting project go by the wayside, but nice
that we have a good name for ours.

0: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedombox.info%22
1: http://www.freedombox.info


From marc at let.de  Wed Dec 14 18:45:33 2011
From: marc at let.de (=?UTF-8?Q?=22Marc_Manthey_=28macbroadcast_=EF=A3=BF=29=22?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:45:33 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Previous use of Freedombox name for
	another project
In-Reply-To: <CAM-YhhDTr8GCEdOEZSd8nC7=k-Lzz_1KTs6v3ZCyfbtn1hjpxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EE8C174.1060809@congresolibre.org>
	<CAM-YhhDTr8GCEdOEZSd8nC7=k-Lzz_1KTs6v3ZCyfbtn1hjpxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFC4B490-4D7D-414E-9152-6AF1ECAB2912@let.de>


http://web.archive.org/web/20070515185617/http://www.freedombox.info/about.html


Interesting


FreedomBox connects to the Internet through a portal called FreedomBox  
Network.
FreedomBox Network provides all the access functionality of an  
Internet Service Provider (ISP)
including thousands of local dial-up numbers which means, of course,
that subscribers do not have to pay toll charges to access the service.
Users who have other contracted ISP services can also link directly to
FreedomBox Network over the Internet. FreedomBox Network brings together
the most desired Internet-based services including: e-mail, chat  
groups, shopping, news,
  a wide-variety of entertainment options, direct links to government  
and service organization sites, financial services and much, much more.


Together, FreedomBox and the FreedomBox Network deliver Internet  
access for people who, in the past, have faced enormous barriers in  
accessing Internet-based services.


more in the archive :)



greetings











From paul at servalproject.org  Thu Dec 15 09:01:56 2011
From: paul at servalproject.org (Paul Gardner-Stephen)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:31:56 +1030
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Serval BatPhone Developer Release 0.07 is out
Message-ID: <CA+_T8-Bw+OJeqwefFzB9Zpg1Ay6ejMUY0q2RjWU5vHiibsOaJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Just a heads up that the next developer release of the Serval BatPhone
software is out!

Head to the Software Page
http://developer.servalproject.org/site/?page_id=644 for downloading,
or search for Serval on the Android Marketplace.

The following features have been added since Release 0.06:
? Automatic Wi-Fi chipset detection process that tries to guess how to
put you phone into adhoc mode. This should now work with most rooted
handsets.
? New screen for displaying the progress of tasks we have to do on install.

The following bugs have been fixed since Release 0.06:
? 0000002: Handset auto-detection needs fixing
? 0000029: Wifi clients may drop broadcast packets
? 0000098: Preparing information sent back to project for display
? 0000127: java.lang.NullPointerException :
SetupActivity.setAvailableWifiModes()
? 0000131: When operating in AP-Client modes, AP cannot be called
? 0000141: Experimental scripts may be run and crash the software (or
phone) on install
? 0000145: Call to node A fails second time after call to node B on
three node network
? 0000147: Adhoc edify interpreter needs rebuilding  so that we can
use "generic" wifi driver loading
? Stopped DNA from corrupting its data file and crashing which would
leave the phone unreachable (General root cause of several other
bugs).

Bugs can be viewed in more detail via our bug tracker at
http://developer.servalproject.org/mantis/. Registration is required
to access the bug tracker.

Any questions or issues can be posted to us here, or bugs entered into
the bug tracker. As always, we are incredibly grateful for the support
of the Serval developer community!

Paul & The Serval Project Team.


From foxmuldrster at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 15 14:43:26 2011
From: foxmuldrster at yahoo.com (Rick C. Hodgin)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:43:26 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Supported hardware
Message-ID: <1323960206.3442.8.camel@rick-toshiba>

I'm new to FreedomBox.  I only found out about it through side-posted
videos on YouTube while looking for information on Richard Stallman.  I
came across Eben Moglen's speeches, and have since been researching.  In
so doing I came across this page:

http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/TargetedHardware

I was wondering if there are any advantages in using one particular
piece of hardware over another?  Or what hardware developers are using?

I am a software developer and am interested in acquiring one and looking
at the software stack, and possibly contributing to it.

Thank you in advance!

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin




From war2none at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 15 21:55:39 2011
From: war2none at hotmail.com (Matt Dodson)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:55:39 +0000
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Previous use of Freedombox name for
 another project
In-Reply-To: <BFC4B490-4D7D-414E-9152-6AF1ECAB2912@let.de>
References: <4EE8C174.1060809@congresolibre.org>,
	<CAM-YhhDTr8GCEdOEZSd8nC7=k-Lzz_1KTs6v3ZCyfbtn1hjpxA@mail.gmail.com>,
	<BFC4B490-4D7D-414E-9152-6AF1ECAB2912@let.de>
Message-ID: <DUB111-W805E0AE91B14A88563489593A30@phx.gbl>



And from another Freedombox

"Good, 
            hardworking people who run into everyday IT problems they just don?t
            understand, 
            leaving them feeling helpless. Business people who long for the freedom
            from stress 
            and confusion that IT glitches often hold them hostage to. We wanted
            to help, and that?s 
            how  Freedom  was born." 
- freedombox.com

Makes me laugh, sounds like their Freedombox is a technology-free panic room.

-m-




> From: marc at let.de
> To: freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:45:33 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] Previous use of Freedombox name for	another project
> 
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20070515185617/http://www.freedombox.info/about.html
> 
> 
> Interesting
> 
> 
> FreedomBox connects to the Internet through a portal called FreedomBox  
> Network.
> FreedomBox Network provides all the access functionality of an  
> Internet Service Provider (ISP)
> including thousands of local dial-up numbers which means, of course,
> that subscribers do not have to pay toll charges to access the service.
> Users who have other contracted ISP services can also link directly to
> FreedomBox Network over the Internet. FreedomBox Network brings together
> the most desired Internet-based services including: e-mail, chat  
> groups, shopping, news,
>   a wide-variety of entertainment options, direct links to government  
> and service organization sites, financial services and much, much more.
> 
> 
> Together, FreedomBox and the FreedomBox Network deliver Internet  
> access for people who, in the past, have faced enormous barriers in  
> accessing Internet-based services.
> 
> 
> more in the archive :)
> 
> 
> 
> greetings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
 		 	   		  
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From marc at let.de  Fri Dec 16 00:06:03 2011
From: marc at let.de (=?UTF-8?Q?=22Marc_Manthey_=28macbroadcast_=EF=A3=BF=29=22?=)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:06:03 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Web of Trust Questions
In-Reply-To: <4EE88ECA.1080806@fifthhorseman.net>
References: <A58A795E7BC94A0E9909979419415D6F@SUZIE>
	<CAKaEYh+nn4M26jwuUvUs6gOpbOC36FB9N8ej0r3M4jpAO7Gciw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EE88ECA.1080806@fifthhorseman.net>
Message-ID: <1C530396-ECFB-42F4-AA6B-8D54C08AA942@let.de>


On Dec 14, 2011, at 12:55 PM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote:

> i remain quite dubious about supposedly general-purpose global  
> "ranking"
> schemes.  They usually seem to me to be either under-specified or
> internally inconsistent.


"Trust is a human concept, not a mathematical one."

http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/sks-devel/2011-12/msg00012.html



i propose an earlier mentioned "reputation system" are there any  
ideas  or papers on the web ?

Would nt this be alernative ?


Marc



--  Les enfants teribbles - research / deployment
Marc Manthey- Vogelsangerstrasse 97
50823 K?ln - Germany
Tel.:0049-221-29891489
Mobil:0049-1577-3329231
web: http://let.de
project : http://stattfernsehen.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/macbroadcast/
facebook: http://www.facebook.com/opencu

Please think about your responsibility towards our environment: Each  
printed e-mail causes about 0.3 grams of CO2 per page.

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and  
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).











From dave.taht at gmail.com  Fri Dec 16 04:44:17 2011
From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 05:44:17 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] bufferbloat, cerowrt and freedombox
Message-ID: <CAA93jw58Y8z_cXEVSkk+Jbvv_Mq-9nutSR=06-McjeKNp59M3A@mail.gmail.com>

I am curious if the wifi blob problem in the dreamplug has been
resolved? It was runnerup #3 for bufferbloat's cerowrt research
effort, but that blob knocked it out of the running last year.

Failing that, is there another hardware device on the freedombox list
that has a decent (fully open source) dual channel wifi radio on it?
I'd give a lot to be working in a less constrained environment.

Other notes:

There's been some progress of late on fixing bufferbloat (which among
other things, is important for vpns to work well on low bandwidth
links), and I'd like folk to be aware of and applying some of the new
techniques to other related projects, see 'byte queue limits' in the
upcoming mainline kernel.

http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2076798 - interview w v cerf, v
jacobson, j gettys, n weaver

http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2071893 - paper w/ jg, kathie nichols

After living in Nicaragua for a few years, I tend to think also that
bandwidth management is important to your overall effort, and I'm
curious if you've taken a hard look at that? in my own experiments
with the previous openrd, it worked a lot better if you could set the
tx queue rings down below 20, from the default, and BQL promises
better.

--
Dave T?ht
SKYPE: davetaht
http://www.bufferbloat.net


From melvincarvalho at gmail.com  Fri Dec 16 12:19:29 2011
From: melvincarvalho at gmail.com (Melvin Carvalho)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:19:29 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Web of Trust Questions
In-Reply-To: <1C530396-ECFB-42F4-AA6B-8D54C08AA942@let.de>
References: <A58A795E7BC94A0E9909979419415D6F@SUZIE>
	<CAKaEYh+nn4M26jwuUvUs6gOpbOC36FB9N8ej0r3M4jpAO7Gciw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EE88ECA.1080806@fifthhorseman.net>
	<1C530396-ECFB-42F4-AA6B-8D54C08AA942@let.de>
Message-ID: <CAKaEYhLoXt7VxXSojo+7K5ZdYzc5v_exGycG1AmXkzGMGLkNcg@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 December 2011 01:06, "Marc Manthey (macbroadcast ?)" <marc at let.de> wrote:
>
> On Dec 14, 2011, at 12:55 PM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote:
>
>> i remain quite dubious about supposedly general-purpose global "ranking"
>> schemes. ?They usually seem to me to be either under-specified or
>> internally inconsistent.
>
>
>
> "Trust is a human concept, not a mathematical one."

I recommend looking at this excellent paper

"Computational Models of Trust and Reputation:
Agents, Evolutionary Games, and Social Networks"

http://www.cdm.lcs.mit.edu/ftp/lmui/computational%20models%20of%20trust%20and%20reputation.pdf

>
> http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/sks-devel/2011-12/msg00012.html
>
>
>
> i propose an earlier mentioned "reputation system" are there any ideas ?or
> papers on the web ?
>
> Would nt this be alernative ?
>
>
> Marc
>
>
>
> -- ?Les enfants teribbles - research / deployment
> Marc Manthey- Vogelsangerstrasse 97
> 50823 K?ln - Germany
> Tel.:0049-221-29891489
> Mobil:0049-1577-3329231
> web: http://let.de
> project : http://stattfernsehen.com
> twitter: http://twitter.com/macbroadcast/
> facebook: http://www.facebook.com/opencu
>
> Please think about your responsibility towards our environment: Each printed
> e-mail causes about 0.3 grams of CO2 per page.
>
> Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
> certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss


From yaxbalamahaw at gmail.com  Fri Dec 16 21:26:16 2011
From: yaxbalamahaw at gmail.com (Nightman)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:26:16 -0600
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Would like to contribute (code)
Message-ID: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hello, I saw Eben's videos about freedombox, and I'd like to contribute
to try to help get this project up and running.  So...  how can I do
this?  What's currently the short-term target being worked on right now,
and where can I help?  Is Bdale's repository the official up-to-date one
for the freedombox project?



From paxcoder at gmail.com  Fri Dec 16 21:47:49 2011
From: paxcoder at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?THVrYSBNYXLEjWV0acSH?=)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:47:49 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Would like to contribute (code)
In-Reply-To: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4EEBBC85.4040009@gmail.com>

On 12/16/2011 10:26 PM, Nightman wrote:
> Hello, I saw Eben's videos about freedombox, and I'd like to contribute
> to try to help get this project up and running.  So...  how can I do
> this?  What's currently the short-term target being worked on right now,
> and where can I help?  Is Bdale's repository the official up-to-date one
> for the freedombox project?

Hey,
I might not be in the loop, but I don't think anything's happening 
except creation and adaptation of packets. I think people are expecting 
a web-based graphical user interface though: They were at first anyway, 
but there are no group efforts to this end that I'm aware of.
It now seems FreedomBox will be a glorified custom Debian setup. Whether 
that's a good or a bad thing is a matter of opinion. But a WUI that 
unifies different components will, I reckon, always be welcome 
(alternatively, existing admin tools will be used).
Some stuff has no web front-ends of their own though, so as an idea, a 
web front-end for apps such as GPG is a good start.

Others, what do you say?

--Luka Mar?eti?


From foxmuldrster at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 16 22:04:33 2011
From: foxmuldrster at yahoo.com (Rick C. Hodgin)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:04:33 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Would like to contribute (code)
In-Reply-To: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1324073073.2078.0.camel@rick-toshiba>

I too am interested, but have not heard a response yet.

On Fri, 2011-12-16 at 15:26 -0600, Nightman wrote:
> Hello, I saw Eben's videos about freedombox, and I'd like to contribute
> to try to help get this project up and running.  So...  how can I do
> this?  What's currently the short-term target being worked on right now,
> and where can I help?  Is Bdale's repository the official up-to-date one
> for the freedombox project?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss




From foxmuldrster at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 16 22:06:36 2011
From: foxmuldrster at yahoo.com (Rick C. Hodgin)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:06:36 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Would like to contribute (code)
In-Reply-To: <4EEBBC85.4040009@gmail.com>
References: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4EEBBC85.4040009@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324073196.2078.1.camel@rick-toshiba>

Luka,

The videos of Eben on YouTube are most inspiring.  He speaks about
Freedombox in such a way that we want to be involved. :-)

So are you saying that it's not moving forward now?  No active software
efforts, or that development has at least stalled?

- Rick C. Hodgin

On Fri, 2011-12-16 at 22:47 +0100, Luka Mar?eti? wrote:
> On 12/16/2011 10:26 PM, Nightman wrote:
> > Hello, I saw Eben's videos about freedombox, and I'd like to contribute
> > to try to help get this project up and running.  So...  how can I do
> > this?  What's currently the short-term target being worked on right now,
> > and where can I help?  Is Bdale's repository the official up-to-date one
> > for the freedombox project?
> 
> Hey,
> I might not be in the loop, but I don't think anything's happening 
> except creation and adaptation of packets. I think people are expecting 
> a web-based graphical user interface though: They were at first anyway, 
> but there are no group efforts to this end that I'm aware of.
> It now seems FreedomBox will be a glorified custom Debian setup. Whether 
> that's a good or a bad thing is a matter of opinion. But a WUI that 
> unifies different components will, I reckon, always be welcome 
> (alternatively, existing admin tools will be used).
> Some stuff has no web front-ends of their own though, so as an idea, a 
> web front-end for apps such as GPG is a good start.
> 
> Others, what do you say?
> 
> --Luka Mar?eti?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss




From vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org  Sat Dec 17 00:35:13 2011
From: vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org (James Vasile)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:35:13 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Would like to contribute (code)
In-Reply-To: <1324073073.2078.0.camel@rick-toshiba>
References: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1324073073.2078.0.camel@rick-toshiba>
Message-ID: <87r504hw72.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

I periodically cough up a task list and see if anybody bites.  I'll do
that again here.

There is indeed an effort afoot to put together the GUI.
http://github.com/jvasile/Plinth

Right now I'm extending that to listen for connections (via a tor hidden
service) to do basic, initial conversation so two freedomboxes can find
each other and agree on how to do further conversation, tell each other
about services offered, etc.

We continue to need somebody to integrate monkeysphere and mod_tls so we
can replace the identity auth part of ssl with gpg and web of trust.
This is necessary to solve the MITM problem associated with self-signed
ssl certs.

One thing stopping the GUI is that I'm not quite sure what the config
layer looks like.  How do you translate user's option choices into
system config in a way that ensures sane config results and allows
expert users to twiddle /etc themselves and can also handle systems with
many different mixes of packages?

If somebody would extend FreedomMaker so a base install had an easy
button in to turn a dreamplug into a very basic wifi router and do a
config for it in Plinth, that would be incredibly helpful.

There are other things, but those are what comes to mind immediately. If
you look at http://freedomboxfoundation.org/code, that's the current
state of things.

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:04:33 -0500, "Rick C. Hodgin" <foxmuldrster at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I too am interested, but have not heard a response yet.
> 
> On Fri, 2011-12-16 at 15:26 -0600, Nightman wrote:
> > Hello, I saw Eben's videos about freedombox, and I'd like to contribute
> > to try to help get this project up and running.  So...  how can I do
> > this?  What's currently the short-term target being worked on right now,
> > and where can I help?  Is Bdale's repository the official up-to-date one
> > for the freedombox project?
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> > Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss


From vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org  Sat Dec 17 01:11:39 2011
From: vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org (James Vasile)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:11:39 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] bufferbloat, cerowrt and freedombox
In-Reply-To: <CAA93jw58Y8z_cXEVSkk+Jbvv_Mq-9nutSR=06-McjeKNp59M3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA93jw58Y8z_cXEVSkk+Jbvv_Mq-9nutSR=06-McjeKNp59M3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87ehw4huic.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 05:44:17 +0100, Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am curious if the wifi blob problem in the dreamplug has been
> resolved? It was runnerup #3 for bufferbloat's cerowrt research
> effort, but that blob knocked it out of the running last year.

AFAIK, no free replacements for the firmware exists.  On the driver
side, there is a free version that lacks some functionality (host-ap
mode, for example).



From foxmuldrster at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 17 01:25:02 2011
From: foxmuldrster at yahoo.com (Rick C. Hodgin)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:25:02 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Would like to contribute (code)
In-Reply-To: <87r504hw72.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
References: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1324073073.2078.0.camel@rick-toshiba>
	<87r504hw72.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
Message-ID: <1324085102.2078.29.camel@rick-toshiba>

James,

I am interested in participating in this project.  I will have to come
up to speed on some of these packages and technologies you're talking
about.  Is there a time where developers meet on IRC somewhere?  Or is
there someone who has done some development with which I could
communicate offline to come up to speed?

I can think of few grander endeavors in the area of freedom than to
complete this project.  Free software atop truly free (and anonymous)
communication ... it completes the circle.

- Rick C. Hodgin

On Fri, 2011-12-16 at 19:35 -0500, James Vasile wrote:
> I periodically cough up a task list and see if anybody bites.  I'll do
> that again here.
> 
> There is indeed an effort afoot to put together the GUI.
> http://github.com/jvasile/Plinth
> 
> Right now I'm extending that to listen for connections (via a tor hidden
> service) to do basic, initial conversation so two freedomboxes can find
> each other and agree on how to do further conversation, tell each other
> about services offered, etc.
> 
> We continue to need somebody to integrate monkeysphere and mod_tls so we
> can replace the identity auth part of ssl with gpg and web of trust.
> This is necessary to solve the MITM problem associated with self-signed
> ssl certs.
> 
> One thing stopping the GUI is that I'm not quite sure what the config
> layer looks like.  How do you translate user's option choices into
> system config in a way that ensures sane config results and allows
> expert users to twiddle /etc themselves and can also handle systems with
> many different mixes of packages?
> 
> If somebody would extend FreedomMaker so a base install had an easy
> button in to turn a dreamplug into a very basic wifi router and do a
> config for it in Plinth, that would be incredibly helpful.
> 
> There are other things, but those are what comes to mind immediately. If
> you look at http://freedomboxfoundation.org/code, that's the current
> state of things.
> 
> On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:04:33 -0500, "Rick C. Hodgin" <foxmuldrster at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I too am interested, but have not heard a response yet.
> > 
> > On Fri, 2011-12-16 at 15:26 -0600, Nightman wrote:
> > > Hello, I saw Eben's videos about freedombox, and I'd like to contribute
> > > to try to help get this project up and running.  So...  how can I do
> > > this?  What's currently the short-term target being worked on right now,
> > > and where can I help?  Is Bdale's repository the official up-to-date one
> > > for the freedombox project?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> > > Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> > > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> > Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss




From vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org  Sat Dec 17 14:37:36 2011
From: vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org (James Vasile)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:37:36 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Would like to contribute (code)
In-Reply-To: <1324085102.2078.29.camel@rick-toshiba>
References: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1324073073.2078.0.camel@rick-toshiba>
	<87r504hw72.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<1324085102.2078.29.camel@rick-toshiba>
Message-ID: <8762hfi7rj.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

I am often on IRC.  Feel free to hunt me down and ping me. :)


From freedombox at lakedaemon.net  Sat Dec 17 14:47:16 2011
From: freedombox at lakedaemon.net (Jason)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:47:16 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] libertas_tf / sdio / mac80211 driver was: Re:
 bufferbloat, cerowrt and freedombox
In-Reply-To: <87ehw4huic.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
References: <CAA93jw58Y8z_cXEVSkk+Jbvv_Mq-9nutSR=06-McjeKNp59M3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<87ehw4huic.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
Message-ID: <20111217144716.GB24539@titan.lakedaemon.net>

James, Dave,

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 08:11:39PM -0500, James Vasile wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 05:44:17 +0100, Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am curious if the wifi blob problem in the dreamplug has been
> > resolved? It was runnerup #3 for bufferbloat's cerowrt research
> > effort, but that blob knocked it out of the running last year.
> 
> AFAIK, no free replacements for the firmware exists.  On the driver
> side, there is a free version that lacks some functionality (host-ap
> mode, for example).

I admit, I haven't done enough research into buffer bloat to have formed
an opinion on it.  However, I've been digging for more flexible wifi
solutions and found something from the XO laptop project.

They have a driver (usb version in mainline) called libertas_tf [1]
which uses a thin firmware from Marvell (non-open) and the mac80211
stack.  The XO laptop project also has code [2] for the sdio version
[3].  It would need to be brought up to date and ushered in as there's
been no activity on it for over a year.

The nice thing about it, no need for proprietary userspace tools or
kernel drivers.  just use ip, iw, hostapd, etc.

Also, the big road block, I haven't touched the wifi on the dreamplug
yet :-(, so I'm not sure which version of the chipset it has.  Or, if
the libertas_tf solution would be compatible with it.  I hope so,
though.

With this driver and firmware, you can do multi-vap, monitor mode, AP,
sta and ad-hoc.  Using the mac80211 stack should give more flexibility
to find solutions for the bufferbloat problem.  Although, I must admit,
I don't think solving bufferbloat should be a blocker or even high
priority at this point.

hth,

Jason.

[1] http://dev.laptop.org/pub/firmware/libertas/thinfirm/
[2]
http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/derosier/wireless-testing/tree/drivers/net/wireless/libertas_tf
[3] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Thinfirm_1.5


From marc at let.de  Sat Dec 17 20:09:39 2011
From: marc at let.de (=?UTF-8?Q?=22Marc_Manthey_=28macbroadcast_=EF=A3=BF=29=22?=)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 21:09:39 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] bufferbloat, cerowrt and freedombox
In-Reply-To: <CAA93jw58Y8z_cXEVSkk+Jbvv_Mq-9nutSR=06-McjeKNp59M3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA93jw58Y8z_cXEVSkk+Jbvv_Mq-9nutSR=06-McjeKNp59M3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A2BDDBBD-F86A-4713-8A90-704BBB06B729@let.de>


On Dec 16, 2011, at 5:44 AM, Dave Taht wrote:

>
>
> After living in Nicaragua for a few years, I tend to think also that
> bandwidth management is important to your overall effort, and I'm
> curious if you've taken a hard look at that? in my own experiments
> with the previous openrd, it worked a lot better if you could set the
> tx queue rings down below 20, from the default, and BQL promises
> better.

hey dave thats might be interesting for you :)

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Path_Discovery_Mechanism/Differences_from_80211s

greetings


Marc


>
> --
> Dave T?ht
> SKYPE: davetaht
> http://www.bufferbloat.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss

--  Les enfants teribbles - research / deployment
Marc Manthey- Vogelsangerstrasse 97
50823 K?ln - Germany
Tel.:0049-221-29891489
Mobil:0049-1577-3329231
web: http://let.de
project : http://stattfernsehen.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/macbroadcast/
facebook: http://www.facebook.com/opencu

Please think about your responsibility towards our environment: Each  
printed e-mail causes about 0.3 grams of CO2 per page.

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and  
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).









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From vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org  Sun Dec 18 17:44:48 2011
From: vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org (James Vasile)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 12:44:48 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Would like to contribute (code)
In-Reply-To: <1324085102.2078.29.camel@rick-toshiba>
References: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1324073073.2078.0.camel@rick-toshiba>
	<87r504hw72.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<1324085102.2078.29.camel@rick-toshiba>
Message-ID: <878vm9rcz3.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:25:02 -0500, "Rick C. Hodgin" <foxmuldrster at yahoo.com> wrote:
> James,
> 
> I am interested in participating in this project.  I will have to come
> up to speed on some of these packages and technologies you're talking
> about.  Is there a time where developers meet on IRC somewhere?  Or is
> there someone who has done some development with which I could
> communicate offline to come up to speed?

It's been pointed out to me that "hey, catch me on IRC" might leave you
hanging.  Hit me off list and we'll set up a time to talk/type.

Best,
James


From foxmuldrster at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 18 18:04:53 2011
From: foxmuldrster at yahoo.com (Rick C. Hodgin)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 13:04:53 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Would like to contribute (code)
In-Reply-To: <878vm9rcz3.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
References: <1324070776.894.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1324073073.2078.0.camel@rick-toshiba>
	<87r504hw72.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<1324085102.2078.29.camel@rick-toshiba>
	<878vm9rcz3.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
Message-ID: <1324231493.2296.22.camel@rick-toshiba>

James,

Much appreciated.  I've been watching videos of your recent
presentation, along with others from Bdale and Eben.  And I've
downloaded the software projects that are available so far and looked
them over.

A lot of work ahead for the "FreedomBoxers". :-)

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

On Sun, 2011-12-18 at 12:44 -0500, James Vasile wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:25:02 -0500, "Rick C. Hodgin" <foxmuldrster at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > James,
> > 
> > I am interested in participating in this project.  I will have to come
> > up to speed on some of these packages and technologies you're talking
> > about.  Is there a time where developers meet on IRC somewhere?  Or is
> > there someone who has done some development with which I could
> > communicate offline to come up to speed?
> 
> It's been pointed out to me that "hey, catch me on IRC" might leave you
> hanging.  Hit me off list and we'll set up a time to talk/type.
> 
> Best,
> James




From zigo at debian.org  Mon Dec 19 06:51:28 2011
From: zigo at debian.org (Thomas Goirand)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 14:51:28 +0800
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Freedom box and sharism.cc
In-Reply-To: <CAHMemOnKXiyWagUSqFHEFGjGxbYwJuAdbkYpt0dL7sFD+u5DhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EE25C74.3030703@debian.org> <20111210015458.GB8536@jones.dk>
	<CAJLOONJ6Dn_2MDY7o9YKQV2WxnTd6t2PiEDpNQ1mY7GcY3Yo=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHMemOnKXiyWagUSqFHEFGjGxbYwJuAdbkYpt0dL7sFD+u5DhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EEEDEF0.7070805@debian.org>

Hi Jon,

Let me please start a public discussion on the Alioth list. My goal is
to have you Jon, to introduced to Jonas and Bdale, as I see some
possible connection between the freedombox project and the hardware seen
at sharism.cc that I saw.

On 12/19/2011 01:52 PM, Jon Phillips wrote:
> Yes, how is freedombox going?

Did you know about it before?

> Has it found a business model yet?

Jonas and Bdale can talk about that better than I would.

I saw the Milkymist One hardware presentation at the last barcamp in
Shanghai. Later on, I could see and try the NanoNote. Both aren;t just
open source hardware, it looked great products, really!

Jonas and Bdale are 2 debian developers working hard on the Freedom box
project. They are currently working with a company that decided to
provide them some plug-computer hardware for free, and on which they
could last work on summer. Please see:

http://freedomboxfoundation.org/

To explain as briefly as possible the freedombox project goals, it is to
bring back freedom and privacy, and let you own the content you publish
on the internet, by storing and controling everything on the device.

The possible applications that we can foresee would be things like: tor,
file servers, social network distributed website, hosting your own site,
sharing files with your friends, chatting with them without a central
server, etc. On purpose, no feature limits are decided, so it could be
everything, since there is a huge software base in Debian.

It is my understanding that the current hardware for the freedombox
project itself isn't free/open (Jonas and Bdale, please correct me if
I'm wrong), while the Milkymist One even has an open source mips CPU.

I have no doubts that you would be capable of producing an awesome open
source plug computer, or anything else you would envision for the
freedombox project.

Cheers,

Thomas

P.S to Clement & Jon:
If you want, you can either read logs at:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
or register by sending "subscribe" in the subject of mail to:
freedombox-discuss-request at lists.alioth.debian.org

No need to add Bdale and Jonas as Cc:, they are reading the
freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org list.


From jarnodebruyn at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 09:42:22 2011
From: jarnodebruyn at gmail.com (Jarno De Bruyn)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:42:22 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Situation in Kazachstan
Message-ID: <CAOr1jikgbhHSLUNN_Go7f3cV6nso+rWcabvt-dJcmKP_W9ppZw@mail.gmail.com>

http://werebuild.eu/wiki/Egypt/Howto_PPP
This is the information that a group called "Telecomix" is spreading.
With creating these dial-up connections, one is still able to gain access
to independent news services.
I wonder if dial-up is the only option if the ISP is blocking everything
and tunneling is no option?
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From maxigas at anargeek.net  Mon Dec 19 09:41:25 2011
From: maxigas at anargeek.net (maxigas)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:41:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Situation in Kazachstan
In-Reply-To: <CAOr1jikgbhHSLUNN_Go7f3cV6nso+rWcabvt-dJcmKP_W9ppZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOr1jikgbhHSLUNN_Go7f3cV6nso+rWcabvt-dJcmKP_W9ppZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111219.094125.186702600294682820.maxigas@anargeek.net>

From: Jarno De Bruyn <jarnodebruyn at gmail.com>
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Situation in Kazachstan
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:42:22 +0100

> http://werebuild.eu/wiki/Egypt/Howto_PPP
> This is the information that a group called "Telecomix" is spreading.
> With creating these dial-up connections, one is still able to gain access to
> independent news services.
> I wonder if dial-up is the only option if the ISP is blocking everything and tunneling
> is no option?

Of course not, same group worked with pirate radio and fax, for instance.

--

The opinions expressed in this email are not mine.

Magic: http://maxigas.hu/maxigas.gpg
EE2E D824 B5C3 4544 C2B8  B75F 2183 52B5 8EC1 57C1



From dr at jones.dk  Mon Dec 19 13:10:59 2011
From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:10:59 +0700
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Freedom box and sharism.cc
In-Reply-To: <4EEEDEF0.7070805@debian.org>
References: <4EE25C74.3030703@debian.org> <20111210015458.GB8536@jones.dk>
	<CAJLOONJ6Dn_2MDY7o9YKQV2WxnTd6t2PiEDpNQ1mY7GcY3Yo=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHMemOnKXiyWagUSqFHEFGjGxbYwJuAdbkYpt0dL7sFD+u5DhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEEDEF0.7070805@debian.org>
Message-ID: <20111219131059.GB5553@jones.dk>

On 11-12-19 at 02:51pm, Thomas Goirand wrote:

> On 12/19/2011 01:52 PM, Jon Phillips wrote:
> > Has [FreedomBox] found a business model yet?
> 
> Jonas and Bdale can talk about that better than I would.
> 

I have no business model, just passion: I participate in Debian, a 
purely volunteer driven project.  On this mailinglist I participate in 
the software stack for the FreedomBox.

Perhaps the better place to ask about business model is at the 
FreedomBox Foundation, which is a separate entity than Debian.  Or 
perhaps those involved in the Foundation will answer here - Bdale 
(Debian developer and leader of the Foundation "technical comitee") and 
James Vasile (Foundation CEO) are active both here and on other 
Foundation specific lists.

Yes, I recognize that this separation is confusing for newcomers.  
Perhaps you are familiar with OLPC and its softare stack "Sugar" - the 
split here is similar, but confusingly both parts identify with same 
name. :-/


> Jonas and Bdale are 2 debian developers working hard on the Freedom 
> box project. They are currently working with a company that decided to 
> provide them some plug-computer hardware for free,

I have never heard of plug computers being given out for free.

I bought myself 2 SheevaPlugs in the spring of 2009 - more than a year 
before the FreedomBox project was started. Since then I've hit the 
breaks on mying more gadgets due to limited personal finances.

If someone has hardware available to hand out, I believe I could be more 
productive with a DreamPlug - since apparently noone but me show any 
interest in using SheevaPlug for FreedomBox, and its different 
bootstrapping slows down my work on the more flexible "boxer" build 
tool.


> and on which they could last work on summer.

Not true.  Work is ongoing, just not directly visible when looking 
narrowly at FreedomBox resources: The software stack for FreedomBox is 
Debian, and ideally this list and its related resources (e.g. git) 
should only be things unique to FreedomBox.



> It is my understanding that the current hardware for the freedombox 
> project itself isn't free/open (Jonas and Bdale, please correct me if 
> I'm wrong), while the Milkymist One even has an open source mips CPU.
> 
> I have no doubts that you would be capable of producing an awesome 
> open source plug computer, or anything else you would envision for the 
> freedombox project.

Plug hardware was chosen because it runs Debian and exist as a consumer 
product - in smaller quantities for developers today, and likely in 
larger quantities for end-users when FreedomBox matures.

Would certainly be super cool to have competing hardware available!

If what you guys can offer is custom-produced hardware for a wholesale 
customer, then perhaps the Foundation would be interested - but I doubt 
it: more likely their stand is that hardware must exist on its own, not 
only as an investment by the Foundation.


If you are interested in producing hardware ideal for prjects like 
FreedomBox, I strongly recommend that you - in addition to exploring 
this project more in detail - get in touch with http://emdebian.org/ 
which is Debian folks devoted to and experienced with Debian on small 
devices.


Hope that helps,

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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From jon at fabricatorz.com  Mon Dec 19 14:36:09 2011
From: jon at fabricatorz.com (Jon Phillips)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:36:09 -0600
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Freedom box and sharism.cc
In-Reply-To: <20111219131059.GB5553@jones.dk>
References: <4EE25C74.3030703@debian.org> <20111210015458.GB8536@jones.dk>
	<CAJLOONJ6Dn_2MDY7o9YKQV2WxnTd6t2PiEDpNQ1mY7GcY3Yo=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHMemOnKXiyWagUSqFHEFGjGxbYwJuAdbkYpt0dL7sFD+u5DhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4EEEDEF0.7070805@debian.org> <20111219131059.GB5553@jones.dk>
Message-ID: <CAHMemO=9+7bs3Yp3tM3rj79hVqxgsa+y7jdS6dRBuD375GmdOw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi long time friends.

I'm happy to hear you all are still working hard.

We are a hardware manufacture that releases as much of our
intellectual property as possible to customers.

If you want to build some product with us, I can provide our bank
account details for you to consider using us to build a completely
open product where we will releases all of the plans from the plugs to
the chips to the software.

Jon

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Jonas Smedegaard <dr at jones.dk> wrote:
> On 11-12-19 at 02:51pm, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
>> On 12/19/2011 01:52 PM, Jon Phillips wrote:
>> > Has [FreedomBox] found a business model yet?
>>
>> Jonas and Bdale can talk about that better than I would.
>>
>
> I have no business model, just passion: I participate in Debian, a
> purely volunteer driven project. ?On this mailinglist I participate in
> the software stack for the FreedomBox.
>
> Perhaps the better place to ask about business model is at the
> FreedomBox Foundation, which is a separate entity than Debian. ?Or
> perhaps those involved in the Foundation will answer here - Bdale
> (Debian developer and leader of the Foundation "technical comitee") and
> James Vasile (Foundation CEO) are active both here and on other
> Foundation specific lists.
>
> Yes, I recognize that this separation is confusing for newcomers.
> Perhaps you are familiar with OLPC and its softare stack "Sugar" - the
> split here is similar, but confusingly both parts identify with same
> name. :-/
>
>
>> Jonas and Bdale are 2 debian developers working hard on the Freedom
>> box project. They are currently working with a company that decided to
>> provide them some plug-computer hardware for free,
>
> I have never heard of plug computers being given out for free.
>
> I bought myself 2 SheevaPlugs in the spring of 2009 - more than a year
> before the FreedomBox project was started. Since then I've hit the
> breaks on mying more gadgets due to limited personal finances.
>
> If someone has hardware available to hand out, I believe I could be more
> productive with a DreamPlug - since apparently noone but me show any
> interest in using SheevaPlug for FreedomBox, and its different
> bootstrapping slows down my work on the more flexible "boxer" build
> tool.
>
>
>> and on which they could last work on summer.
>
> Not true. ?Work is ongoing, just not directly visible when looking
> narrowly at FreedomBox resources: The software stack for FreedomBox is
> Debian, and ideally this list and its related resources (e.g. git)
> should only be things unique to FreedomBox.
>
>
>
>> It is my understanding that the current hardware for the freedombox
>> project itself isn't free/open (Jonas and Bdale, please correct me if
>> I'm wrong), while the Milkymist One even has an open source mips CPU.
>>
>> I have no doubts that you would be capable of producing an awesome
>> open source plug computer, or anything else you would envision for the
>> freedombox project.
>
> Plug hardware was chosen because it runs Debian and exist as a consumer
> product - in smaller quantities for developers today, and likely in
> larger quantities for end-users when FreedomBox matures.
>
> Would certainly be super cool to have competing hardware available!
>
> If what you guys can offer is custom-produced hardware for a wholesale
> customer, then perhaps the Foundation would be interested - but I doubt
> it: more likely their stand is that hardware must exist on its own, not
> only as an investment by the Foundation.
>
>
> If you are interested in producing hardware ideal for prjects like
> FreedomBox, I strongly recommend that you - in addition to exploring
> this project more in detail - get in touch with http://emdebian.org/
> which is Debian folks devoted to and experienced with Debian on small
> devices.
>
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> ?- Jonas
>
> --
> ?* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
> ?* Tlf.: +45 40843136 ?Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>
> ?[x] quote me freely ?[ ] ask before reusing ?[ ] keep private



-- 
Jon Phillips ???? http://fabricatorz.com ? skype: kidproto ? irc: rejon
+1.415.830.3884 (global) ? +86-187-1003-9974 (beijing)


From eugen at leitl.org  Mon Dec 19 14:49:23 2011
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 15:49:23 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] another interesting device candidate: HP N40L
Message-ID: <20111219144923.GV31847@leitl.org>


It's not an ARM, but it's low-power enough to
qualify as an embedded (<25 W TDP):

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/sm/WF06b/15351-15351-4237916-4237917-4237917-4248009-5163346.html

sells for 192.80 EUR on amazon.de
Takes up to 8 GByte DDR3 ECC, and also can host
the HP Micro Server Remote Access Card Kit, a
HP IPMI with full KVM/remote media.

CPU performance more than adequate for the task:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Turion+II+Neo+K625+Dual-Core

I have quite a few of the HP N36L (a previous model of above)
of the things in operation, and it's a solid little
device.


From melvincarvalho at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 01:59:14 2011
From: melvincarvalho at gmail.com (Melvin Carvalho)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 02:59:14 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Fwd: The CA system is spectacularly broken -
	can the TAG help?
In-Reply-To: <CAE1ny+7s2Xjugh=bAjnNaBnwPpHFWZY1=siEQ8yyVf=MB2qsTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE1ny+7s2Xjugh=bAjnNaBnwPpHFWZY1=siEQ8yyVf=MB2qsTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKaEYhKNjjMY7bYvvR18Y3m6+wzYt6YsLm_42LoYUgZ8LtfFHA@mail.gmail.com>

FYI


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Harry Halpin <hhalpin at ibiblio.org>
Date: 20 December 2011 00:44
Subject: The CA system is spectacularly broken - can the TAG help?
To: www-tag at w3.org


While I understand the CA system is somewhat outside your usual remit,
let me add this to your pile of woes. I'm doing this because 1) the
system has so stunningly came apart at the seams last year that it
seems all parties involved in the Web (ISOC, W3C, etc.) should be
actively looking at this issue and 2) there are now three different
proposals for fixing this.

There's currently a giant gaping security issue on the Web, namely
that the it's quite easy to fake the root certificates of a CA and so
compromise ?TLS connections - and thus most high-value transactions on
the Web in a way that is *very* hard to detect. For a detailed
explanation of the problem, Moxie of Whisper Systems has an excellent
video [1]. There's been a number of very high-profile compromises,
such as the Diginotar [2] and Comodo attacks [3]. Overall, probably
problem #1 for security on the Web. It undermines all financial
transactions on the Web - I'd bet money Paypal stays awake at night
thinking about this. It's also a life and death situation for human
rights activists in Syria, Iran, and elsewhere - who may not stay
awake another night if the cert for their Gmail or Facebook account is
faked.

Now, over the last weeks I've seen about 3 different proposals that
are quite serious:

1) Google's Proposal (Ben Laurie and Adam Langsley): Basically make a
public audit log of registered certs, and then the client/domain
owners can check their certs versus that log. That probably has some
browser component for checking all of this [5].

2) Sovereign Key proposal from EFF (Peter Eckersley): Similar to
Google's proposal but more complex, uses an audit log of a "Sovereign
Key" rather than certs [4]

3) Convergence Proposal from Whisper Systems/Twitter (Moxie
Marlinspike): Features a more decentralized CA-like system with
user-based "trust agility" where users can choose which CA-like
"notary" to trust via browser [6]

At TPAC, I talked to some of the browser team folks about this,
everyone agreed the CA/Browser Forum is dysfunctional (i.e. a front
for the current broken CA system) and they would be happy to see W3C
or someone move in this space [6]. Google notes "We now have an
outline of the basic idea and will be continuing to flesh it out in
the coming months, hopefully in conjunction with other browser
vendors." [5]

So maybe time for W3C to move? While I understand the TAG only makes
"findings", I suggest that given the overlap between the Google and
EFF proposal, I'm pretty sure there's a solution space going on here
even if it's outside of the TAG's expertise, and that solution space
will probably involve - browsers, and interaction with the CA/Browser
Forum.. Sounds like it's time for W3C to make a move. I'd do an
analysis of the topic, but also suggest that this problem is big
enough to warrant getting folks together on ASAP.

Who: I'd suggest that we return to the idea of hosting a workshop on
this topic, and since it's a large topic, I suggest W3C co-host with
the CA/Browser forum and maybe ISOC/IAB.
When: Soon as possible.

[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Wl2FW2TcA
[2]http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/sep/05/diginotar-certificate-hack-cyberwar
[3]http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-20050503-83.html
[4]https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/11/sovereign-keys-proposal-make-https-and-email-more-secure
[5]http://www.imperialviolet.org/2011/11/29/certtransparency.html
[6]http://convergence.io/


From robvanderhoeven at ziggo.nl  Tue Dec 20 10:33:39 2011
From: robvanderhoeven at ziggo.nl (Rob van der Hoeven)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:33:39 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] another interesting device candidate: HP
 N40L
In-Reply-To: <20111219144923.GV31847@leitl.org>
References: <20111219144923.GV31847@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <1324377219.5182.53.camel@suse4.site>

On Mon, 2011-12-19 at 15:49 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> It's not an ARM, but it's low-power enough to
> qualify as an embedded (<25 W TDP):
> 
> http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/sm/WF06b/15351-15351-4237916-4237917-4237917-4248009-5163346.html
> 
> sells for 192.80 EUR on amazon.de

The GuruPlug Server sells for 129,95 EUR on amazon.de. The HP is much
more powerful _and_ designed as a server that must run 24/7. I think the
HP is an excellent plug-alternative.

Also interesting are motherboards with the low power AMD E-350 or E-450
CPU. These are dual core processors with integrated graphics. TDP is
only 18 W. Asus has some very nice passively cooled motherboards like:

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_CPU_on_Board/E35M1M/

This motherboard comes with integrated processor and costs around 100
EUR. You can have relatively cheap and powerful "FreedomBox hardware" by
replacing the motherboard of an old PC with this motherboard...

Rob.
http://freedomboxblog.nl




From melvincarvalho at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 15:32:23 2011
From: melvincarvalho at gmail.com (Melvin Carvalho)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:32:23 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] keyserver spam
In-Reply-To: <4EEB84FD.9020408@fifthhorseman.net>
References: <4EEB6906.8060900@lists.grepular.com>
	<4EEB84FD.9020408@fifthhorseman.net>
Message-ID: <CAKaEYhKJ8qWtgS6CNL4HRE6SvPpiVmXRXt6aKMXKDY5vh1-pzw@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 December 2011 18:50, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg at fifthhorseman.net> wrote:
> On 12/16/2011 10:51 AM, gnupg at lists.grepular.com wrote:
>> I understand that once you've uploaded something to the keyservers, it
>> can't be removed. Eg, if I sign someone elses key and upload that, it
>> will be attached to their key permanently?
>
> yes, this is correct. :(
>
>> What if someone were to generate say, 10,000 keypairs with "offensive"
>> uid names, and then sign my key with each of them, and then upload that
>> to the keyservers? Is there anything to stop that?
>
> nope. ?flooding like this is currently possible. :(
>
>> Is there anything to
>> stop a spammer generating a key with their URL in the uid name and then
>> signing every key they can find and uploading that to the keyservers?
>
> nope, this is also possible. :(
>
>> Has anything like this happened before?
>
> well, there's the JBARSE key, which i vaguely recall having been created
> in a joking way to threaten character assassination, but i can't find
> any keys that it has actually signed, nor any documentation to explain
> why i have this recollection, so please take with a grain of salt.

I'm wondering if this could be as an attack vector against (say),
freedombox, if it became popular e.g.

1. Lets say FBX got a big sponsorship, could the key servers cope with
1 million, 10 million, 100 million new keys?

Granted, this is a nice problem to have! :)

2. Could a malicious or anti-freedom oriented entity use this to
disrupt the FBX network, for example by using a botnet to keep
spamming key servers, similar to email spam botnets.

CC: FBX mail list

>
> ? ? ? ?--dkg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users at gnupg.org
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
>


From nick.m.daly at gmail.com  Wed Dec 21 02:01:40 2011
From: nick.m.daly at gmail.com (Nick Daly)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:01:40 -0600
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Supported hardware
In-Reply-To: <1323960206.3442.8.camel@rick-toshiba> (Rick C. Hodgin's message
	of "Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:43:26 -0500")
References: <1323960206.3442.8.camel@rick-toshiba>
Message-ID: <87ipla1y4b.fsf@debian.home>

Rick C. Hodgin writes:

> I was wondering if there are any advantages in using one particular
> piece of hardware over another?  Or what hardware developers are using?
>
> I am a software developer and am interested in acquiring one and looking
> at the software stack, and possibly contributing to it.

Rick, the officially targeted hardware right now is in James Vasile's
speeches [0], the DreamPlug [1].  Other folks are looking into different
configurations (Jonas was looking into the SheevaPlug/GuruPlug, IIRC),
but I don't think anybody's tried porting Bdale's Freedom-maker [2] to
other hardware platforms yet.

Nick

0: https://freedomboxfoundation.org/

1: http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/t-dreamplugdetails.aspx

2: https://freedomboxfoundation.org/code/


From fiftyfour at waldevin.com  Wed Dec 21 04:28:13 2011
From: fiftyfour at waldevin.com (John Walsh)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 15:28:13 +1100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Web of Trust Questions
In-Reply-To: <4EE78590.7020309@tablix.org>
References: <A58A795E7BC94A0E9909979419415D6F@SUZIE>
	<4EE78590.7020309@tablix.org>
Message-ID: <FEDD162F7CB443B58B3E5B563C41FEE6@SUZIE>

Hi Everybody

> GPG allows you to tell it how much you trust someone to make 
> proper verifications before signing another key (and so 
> introducing someone into the web of trust). See "trust" 
> command under the --edit-key in GPG man page:
> 
> http://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual.html#AEN346
> 
Thank you Tomaz for providing the link above. I read the full manual twice
and some parts a third time to get my head round the whole Web of Trust
concept. It took me a while to understand because the help and UI of the app
I was using was misleading. I confirmed that the app was misleading after
reading your link. Thank you for putting me back on track.

I also read that GNUTLS [1] provides an experimental server solution to use
an OpenPGP Certificate instead of a CA Certificate. It seems like a cool
solution. GNUTLS Server solution offers an option to use the Web of Trust to
confirm the identity of the browser's client certificate (me in this
example). I would be grateful if anybody on this list could answer my
questions below about GNUTLS.

1) Does the GNUTLS solution allow the client certificate (me) to "phone
home", to use my own WOT to confirm the credentials of the GNUTLS server I
am trying to access on the web?
2) How far away is GNUTLS from reaching stable status? 

Kind Regards

Fifty Four
http://www.gnu.org/software/gnutls/openpgp.html




From freedombox at lakedaemon.net  Wed Dec 21 16:43:32 2011
From: freedombox at lakedaemon.net (Jason)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 11:43:32 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] libertas_tf / sdio / mac80211 driver was:
 Re: bufferbloat, cerowrt and freedombox
In-Reply-To: <20111217144716.GB24539@titan.lakedaemon.net>
References: <CAA93jw58Y8z_cXEVSkk+Jbvv_Mq-9nutSR=06-McjeKNp59M3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<87ehw4huic.fsf@wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
	<20111217144716.GB24539@titan.lakedaemon.net>
Message-ID: <20111221164332.GD24539@titan.lakedaemon.net>

James, Bdale,

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 09:47:16AM -0500, Jason wrote:
> Also, the big road block, I haven't touched the wifi on the dreamplug
> yet :-(, so I'm not sure which version of the chipset it has.  Or, if
> the libertas_tf solution would be compatible with it.  I hope so,
> though.

Update:  I did a little digging and it appears the dreamplug has the
SD8787 wifi chipset attached via sdio.  The thin firmware I referenced
before is for the 8686 attached via sdio.

Bdale, is there any way we could talk to Marvell about a version of the
thin firmware for the 8787?

thx,

Jason.


From fiftyfour at waldevin.com  Thu Dec 22 00:00:27 2011
From: fiftyfour at waldevin.com (John Walsh)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:00:27 +1100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] keyserver spam
In-Reply-To: <CAKaEYhKJ8qWtgS6CNL4HRE6SvPpiVmXRXt6aKMXKDY5vh1-pzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EEB6906.8060900@lists.grepular.com><4EEB84FD.9020408@fifthhorseman.net>
	<CAKaEYhKJ8qWtgS6CNL4HRE6SvPpiVmXRXt6aKMXKDY5vh1-pzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E3335B0634194CBEB7BE6B3DE3AE1C98@SUZIE>

Hi Everybody,

Geez. Just when I get PGP Certificates and the Web of Trust, I discover it's
susceptible to spammers 8( 
Comments inline.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> freedombox-discuss-bounces+fiftyfour=waldevin.com at lists.alioth
> .debian.org 
> [mailto:freedombox-discuss-bounces+fiftyfour=waldevin.com at list
> s.alioth.debian.org] On Behalf Of Melvin Carvalho
> Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2011 2:32 AM
> To: GnuPG Users
> Cc: freedombox-discuss; gnupg at lists.grepular.com
> Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] keyserver spam
> 
> On 16 December 2011 18:50, Daniel Kahn Gillmor 
> <dkg at fifthhorseman.net> wrote:
> > On 12/16/2011 10:51 AM, gnupg at lists.grepular.com wrote:
> >> I understand that once you've uploaded something to the 
> keyservers, 
> >> it can't be removed. Eg, if I sign someone elses key and 
> upload that, 
> >> it will be attached to their key permanently?
> >
> > yes, this is correct. :(
> >
> >> What if someone were to generate say, 10,000 keypairs with 
> "offensive"
> >> uid names, and then sign my key with each of them, and then upload 
> >> that to the keyservers? Is there anything to stop that?
> >
> > nope. ?flooding like this is currently possible. :(
These keyservers are public. Could each FBX have it's own private keyserver
which restricts who can sign/trust/upload keys, while still remain connected
to the wider Web of Trust (keyserver) ecosystem?

For example, only those who are "friends" (two way connection) are allowed
to sign my keys. There could be another rule that I only trust keys of my
direct family (parents, siblings, children). All this could be
abstracted/automated for users as long as they have an FBX. Am I just
dreaming?

> >
> >> Is there anything to
> >> stop a spammer generating a key with their URL in the uid name and 
> >> then signing every key they can find and uploading that to 
> the keyservers?
> >
> > nope, this is also possible. :(

> >
> >> Has anything like this happened before?
> >
> > well, there's the JBARSE key, which i vaguely recall having been 
> > created in a joking way to threaten character assassination, but i 
> > can't find any keys that it has actually signed, nor any 
> documentation 
> > to explain why i have this recollection, so please take 
> with a grain of salt.
> 
> I'm wondering if this could be as an attack vector against 
> (say), freedombox, if it became popular e.g.
> 
> 1. Lets say FBX got a big sponsorship, could the key servers cope with
> 1 million, 10 million, 100 million new keys?
> 
> Granted, this is a nice problem to have! :)
> 
> 2. Could a malicious or anti-freedom oriented entity use this 
> to disrupt the FBX network, for example by using a botnet to 
> keep spamming key servers, similar to email spam botnets.
> 
> CC: FBX mail list
> 
> >
> > ? ? ? ?--dkg
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gnupg-users mailing list
> > Gnupg-users at gnupg.org
> > http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedo
> mbox-discuss



From phil at hands.com  Thu Dec 22 09:44:48 2011
From: phil at hands.com (Philip Hands)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:44:48 +0000
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] keyserver spam
In-Reply-To: <E3335B0634194CBEB7BE6B3DE3AE1C98@SUZIE>
References: <4EEB6906.8060900@lists.grepular.com><4EEB84FD.9020408@fifthhorseman.net>
	<CAKaEYhKJ8qWtgS6CNL4HRE6SvPpiVmXRXt6aKMXKDY5vh1-pzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E3335B0634194CBEB7BE6B3DE3AE1C98@SUZIE>
Message-ID: <87sjkd3ppr.fsf@poker.hands.com>

On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:00:27 +1100, "John Walsh" <fiftyfour at waldevin.com> wrote:
> Hi Everybody,
> 
> Geez. Just when I get PGP Certificates and the Web of Trust, I discover it's
> susceptible to spammers 8( 

I'd imagine that if this were to happen it wouldn't take long for
someone to come up with something that could look for bundles of keys
that were neither connected to the strong set, nor to other keys that
had been in the servers for some decent amount of time, and simply
discard them -- although that would be upsetting for new, solitary users
of course, it would give people a reason to track down exising users and
buy them a beer, which has to be a good thing :-)

Cheers, Phil.
-- 
|)|  Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560]    http://www.hands.com/
|-|  HANDS.COM Ltd.                    http://www.uk.debian.org/
|(|  10 Onslow Gardens, South Woodford, London  E18 1NE  ENGLAND
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From mdz at debian.org  Mon Dec 26 18:22:08 2011
From: mdz at debian.org (Matt Zimmerman)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 10:22:08 -0800
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Freedombox and Locker (Re: another tool to
 leave the cloud)
In-Reply-To: <20110815200759.GF29305@localhost>
References: <20110815200759.GF29305@localhost>
Message-ID: <20111226182208.GA19845@alcor.net>

I've been short of time for FreedomBox activities, but wanted to check in
regarding Locker.  As someone involved with both projects, I am very happy
to help answer questions and provide guidance with regard to Locker.  I'm
not very up to date on the current direction of FreedomBox, but if there is
a need for technology to harvest data from various web services, then Locker
could be very useful.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:07:59PM +0200, bertagaz at ptitcanardnoir.org wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Appeared on planet.debian.org, some people are working on a tool 
> called Locker that "collect all of my personal data, from wherever it is,
> into one place". It seems to be able to retrieve data from a lot of
> sources, like "Facebook, Twitter, Google, Foursquare, Github and dozens of
> other services".
> 
> Source code: https://github.com/LockerProject/Locker
> 
> Blog post on Planet Debian:
> http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2011/08/15/building-a-personal-data-locker/
> 
> bert.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss

-- 
 - mdz


From nick.m.daly at gmail.com  Mon Dec 26 22:17:17 2011
From: nick.m.daly at gmail.com (Nick Daly)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:17:17 -0600
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Wiki Engine for a DreamPlug?
Message-ID: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks, I know you're all pleasantly opinionated, so please, chime
in!  I'm wondering what you'd recommend for a wiki engine on the
DreamPlug?  Is MediaWiki too big?  Is there another you'd recommend?
If it's simple to set up and configure, all the better, because, at
Thomas Ruddy's request, I'm looking to add it to my plug server setup
scripts.

Also, are there any port-forwarding services, similar to PageKite that
I should be aware of?  I'm looking to add that to the setup scripts as
well and just want to be sure I'm covering all my (major) options.

Thanks for your time,
Nick


From erkan77 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 26 22:22:01 2011
From: erkan77 at gmail.com (Erkan Yilmaz)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 23:22:01 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Wiki Engine for a DreamPlug?
In-Reply-To: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD3HTddVmVjO6x7SHR+yY+1xppy0=vwQfNKcaOGzdDx_e2DroA@mail.gmail.com>

wikis:
the choice wizard (1) may help you to do an initial selection

(1) http://www.wikimatrix.org/wizard.php

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Nick Daly <nick.m.daly at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi folks, I know you're all pleasantly opinionated, so please, chime
> in!  I'm wondering what you'd recommend for a wiki engine on the
> DreamPlug?  Is MediaWiki too big?  Is there another you'd recommend?
> If it's simple to set up and configure, all the better, because, at
> Thomas Ruddy's request, I'm looking to add it to my plug server setup
> scripts.
>
> Also, are there any port-forwarding services, similar to PageKite that
> I should be aware of?  I'm looking to add that to the setup scripts as
> well and just want to be sure I'm covering all my (major) options.
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Nick
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
>



-- 
Find me at:

personal blog http://IaskQuestions.com
gnu/linux user #500092

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From nick.m.daly at gmail.com  Mon Dec 26 22:33:01 2011
From: nick.m.daly at gmail.com (Nick Daly)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:33:01 -0600
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Wiki Engine for a DreamPlug?
In-Reply-To: <CAD3HTddVmVjO6x7SHR+yY+1xppy0=vwQfNKcaOGzdDx_e2DroA@mail.gmail.com>
	(Erkan Yilmaz's message of "Mon, 26 Dec 2011 23:22:01 +0100")
References: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD3HTddVmVjO6x7SHR+yY+1xppy0=vwQfNKcaOGzdDx_e2DroA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87d3bbt142.fsf@debian.home>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


>> Nick Daly wrote:
>> What would you recommend for a wiki engine on the DreamPlug?
>
> Erkan Yilmaz writes:
> http://www.wikimatrix.org/wizard.php

Sorry for asking the wrong question.  Which, of the 77 wiki engines that
appear to be ideologically compatible with the mission of the FreedomBox
project [0], have people had significant positive / negative experiences
with that would cause them to recommend for or against a particular wiki
engine?  What are those recommendations and why?

Thanks for your time,
Nick

0: http://www.wikimatrix.org/wizard.php?d[pl][]=C&d[pl][]=C%2B%2B&d[pl][]=Free+Pascal&d[pl][]=Haskell&d[pl][]=Java&d[pl][]=JavaScript&d[pl][]=Lua&d[pl][]=Perl&d[pl][]=Perl,+JavaScript&d[pl][]=PHP&d[pl][]=PHP,+SQL,+JavaScript&d[pl][]=PHP,+XSL,+JavaScript&d[pl][]=Python&d[pl][]=Python+and+JavaScript&d[pl][]=Rails&d[pl][]=REBOL&d[pl][]=Ruby&d[pl][]=Ruby+on+Rails&d[pl][]=Shell&d[pl][]=Smalltalk&d[pl][]=tdbengine/EASY&d[pl][]=XOTcl+and+Tcl&d[pl][]=&d[foss]=free&d[storage]=&d[flag]=1&d[language]=&d[support]=&d[wysiwyg]=&d[history]=yes&d[go]=1&x=59&y=5
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From dr at jones.dk  Tue Dec 27 01:08:00 2011
From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 08:08:00 +0700
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Wiki Engine for a DreamPlug?
In-Reply-To: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111227010800.GA5711@jones.dk>

On 11-12-26 at 04:17pm, Nick Daly wrote:
> I'm wondering what you'd recommend for a wiki engine on the DreamPlug?

I recommend to avoid coding envorinments that encourage speedy and 
"sloppy" coding with little or no care for security.  I am no expert in 
that field, but would personally steer away from PHP, Ruby on rails and 
Django.

I recommend to aim for extreme efficiency in power concumption and 
memory use.  Without having done any actual analysis on the matter, it 
seems ideal to me to favor precompilation of static web pages over the 
extremely common rendering on-the-fly from a general-purpose database.

Specifically, I would recommend Ikiwiki!


The FreedomBox Foundation uses Ikiwiki for their website.

Ikiwiki comes with very few "themes" but visual style can be radically 
changed: http://kobenhavnsdelebiler.dk/ (Freel free to examine its 
source: http://source.delebilfonden.dk/?p=website.git;a=blob;f=README )


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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From kent at songbird.com  Tue Dec 27 03:20:04 2011
From: kent at songbird.com (kent)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:20:04 -0800
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Wiki_Engine_for_a_DreamPlug=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <20111227010800.GA5711@jones.dk>
References: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111227010800.GA5711@jones.dk>
Message-ID: <6d8e3b7a0afd320efe754650f7cca068@songbird.com>

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 08:08:00 +0700, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> On 11-12-26 at 04:17pm, Nick Daly wrote:
>> I'm wondering what you'd recommend for a wiki engine on the 
>> DreamPlug?
>
> I recommend to avoid coding envorinments that encourage speedy and
> "sloppy" coding with little or no care for security.  I am no expert 
> in
> that field, but would personally steer away from PHP, Ruby on rails 
> and
> Django.

Agree...

> I recommend to aim for extreme efficiency in power concumption and
> memory use.  Without having done any actual analysis on the matter, 
> it
> seems ideal to me to favor precompilation of static web pages over 
> the
> extremely common rendering on-the-fly from a general-purpose 
> database.

Agree also...

> Specifically, I would recommend Ikiwiki!

I would like to agree, because I like ikiwiki a lot, and it's what I 
use for my personal projects almost exclusively.  But I think ikiwiki is 
a piece of software that demands a certain amount of technical 
sophistication, and if the intent is to have something that the average 
citizen can easily use, it would be necessary to to set up a wrapper for 
some canned configurations, with a larger set of themes.

> The FreedomBox Foundation uses Ikiwiki for their website.
>
> Ikiwiki comes with very few "themes" but visual style can be 
> radically
> changed: http://kobenhavnsdelebiler.dk/ (Freel free to examine its
> source: http://source.delebilfonden.dk/?p=website.git;a=blob;f=README 
> )

Yes, but surely we don't expect the average user to be tweaking CSS 
etc?

Don't get me wrong -- I think it would be great to use ikiwiki, but it 
would take some work to make it accessible to the average person, don't 
you think?

I guess it depends on the use case, though.  If the intent is to 
provide a standard "Freedom Box Wiki" that comes preconfigured, then it 
would be great.

Kent



From phil at hands.com  Tue Dec 27 12:25:48 2011
From: phil at hands.com (Philip Hands)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 12:25:48 +0000
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Wiki Engine for a DreamPlug?
In-Reply-To: <6d8e3b7a0afd320efe754650f7cca068@songbird.com>
References: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111227010800.GA5711@jones.dk>
	<6d8e3b7a0afd320efe754650f7cca068@songbird.com>
Message-ID: <87lipyyzeb.fsf@poker.hands.com>

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:20:04 -0800, kent <kent at songbird.com> wrote:
...
> > Specifically, I would recommend Ikiwiki!
> 
> I would like to agree, because I like ikiwiki a lot, and it's what I 
> use for my personal projects almost exclusively.  But I think ikiwiki is 
> a piece of software that demands a certain amount of technical 
> sophistication, and if the intent is to have something that the average 
> citizen can easily use, it would be necessary to to set up a wrapper for 
> some canned configurations, with a larger set of themes.

There is the ikiwiki-hosting package, which allows the creation of
new ikiwiki sites quite nicely, although I'm only using it from the
command-line, whereas one would probably want to have a web frontend as
has been done for branchable.com -- I wonder if Joey/Lars would be
willing to bundle that up into a package (assuming that's not already
part of ikiwiki-hosting, that I've not noticed).

The problem is mostly that the people that use ikiwiki are generally not
so bothered about pretty design, so a lot of ikiwiki sites remain in the
default monchrome.

Certainly, one of the reasons I really like ikiwiki is that if it ever
became important to me to have a pretty site, it being unencumbered with
design decisions of its own means that one can do anything one likes
with CSS -- the only problem being that I don't really have an opinion
about what might be better.

> Yes, but surely we don't expect the average user to be tweaking CSS 
> etc?

If someone that's upset about how bland default ikiwiki is would like to
knock up some pretty themes, that would probably do us all a favour.
Particularly if they had some sort of subtle common style about them
that hinted that they were something to do with the freedombox.

Given the sorts of users that are likely to be early adopters, if our
default installation encouraged people to allow cloning of their site's
CSS, that might give rise to one or two of our more creative users
knocking up some nice styles, which is all that would be required to
make ikiwiki pretty enough to keep the average user happy.

I think it would be great if we could make it so that someone's FB
hosted ikiwiki based blog could inspire someone to buy/build their own
instance of FB, at which point they could easily go back to that blog,
and grab a copy of the site's CSS for use on their own blog (licenses
allowing).

As mentioned, the pre-compiled nature of ikiwiki seems like a perfect fit
for FB, since it allows the rendered site to be copied to better
connected hosts if one wants to protect bandwidth to the FB itself, and
it's not (necessarily) going to instantly collapse when slashdotted.

Technical users get the added bonus that it's all stored in git (or
whatever) so off-line editing is possible.

The main problem with ikiwiki is also due to the fact that it's static
content, so while it has modules for doing things like polls and
calendars, it's not exactly a "Click this button to have a poll appear on
the right of the main page" -- you have to put a directive in, and it's
really a bit of a cheat, since it's editing a page for you rather than
storing data in a database.  I have a feeling that non-programmers will
not quite understand what's going on with that.

Likewise, I have used ikiwiki as a CMS for building non-wiki web pages,
by allowing wiki style access via authenticated HTTPS, and rendering the
same content without any of the edit options available, and with some
nicer CSS, as the public website.  It works nicely, and for my brother's
site allows him to maintain a bi-lingual site relatively painlessly, but
I know that there is absolutely no chance that he'd have managed the
configuration required to do that with ikiwiki on his own.  Then again,
he'd not have even thought of making the site multi-lingual.

Cheers, Phil.
-- 
|)|  Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560]    http://www.hands.com/
|-|  HANDS.COM Ltd.                    http://www.uk.debian.org/
|(|  10 Onslow Gardens, South Woodford, London  E18 1NE  ENGLAND
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From melvincarvalho at gmail.com  Tue Dec 27 12:47:00 2011
From: melvincarvalho at gmail.com (Melvin Carvalho)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 13:47:00 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Wiki Engine for a DreamPlug?
In-Reply-To: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKaEYh+gdoorkHvGQY8pKOCpqLQ5X+E=Q4XQtLFLpZ-LYe5t4g@mail.gmail.com>

On 26 December 2011 23:17, Nick Daly <nick.m.daly at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks, I know you're all pleasantly opinionated, so please, chime
> in! ?I'm wondering what you'd recommend for a wiki engine on the
> DreamPlug? ?Is MediaWiki too big? ?Is there another you'd recommend?
> If it's simple to set up and configure, all the better, because, at
> Thomas Ruddy's request, I'm looking to add it to my plug server setup
> scripts.
>
> Also, are there any port-forwarding services, similar to PageKite that
> I should be aware of? ?I'm looking to add that to the setup scripts as
> well and just want to be sure I'm covering all my (major) options.

I'd try and use one with maximum 'data freedom', so allowing htlm5
markup such as rdfa and/or microdata.

This will enable fbx to be more linkable / expressive long-term.

Not sure what the options are but if mediawiki is not too resource
intensive there's a semantic mediawiki plugin too.  Another advantage
of mediawiki is that it's well supported and a large team working with
the latest web standards ...

>
> Thanks for your time,
> Nick
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss


From dave.taht at gmail.com  Tue Dec 27 13:07:17 2011
From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 14:07:17 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Wiki Engine for a DreamPlug?
In-Reply-To: <CAKaEYh+gdoorkHvGQY8pKOCpqLQ5X+E=Q4XQtLFLpZ-LYe5t4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKaEYh+gdoorkHvGQY8pKOCpqLQ5X+E=Q4XQtLFLpZ-LYe5t4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA93jw5ifY9EyrdAAkjM55wYMkh2Me1znv_S6es_qpTO7hAYNw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Melvin Carvalho
<melvincarvalho at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 December 2011 23:17, Nick Daly <nick.m.daly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi folks, I know you're all pleasantly opinionated, so please, chime
>> in! ?I'm wondering what you'd recommend for a wiki engine on the
>> DreamPlug? ?Is MediaWiki too big? ?Is there another you'd recommend?
>> If it's simple to set up and configure, all the better, because, at
>> Thomas Ruddy's request, I'm looking to add it to my plug server setup
>> scripts.
>>
>> Also, are there any port-forwarding services, similar to PageKite that
>> I should be aware of? ?I'm looking to add that to the setup scripts as
>> well and just want to be sure I'm covering all my (major) options.
>
> I'd try and use one with maximum 'data freedom', so allowing htlm5
> markup such as rdfa and/or microdata.
>
> This will enable fbx to be more linkable / expressive long-term.
>
> Not sure what the options are but if mediawiki is not too resource
> intensive there's a semantic mediawiki plugin too. ?Another advantage
> of mediawiki is that it's well supported and a large team working with
> the latest web standards ...

I too settled on ikiwiki for a local data store and blog (one of my
blogs is in it)

There are two features and two flaws in ikiwiki on the dreamplug.

The read-only feature is amazingly fast on lighttpd even on tiny hardware,
and it's very easy to replicate stuff with rsync (as well as fast).
This latter feature is very good to have in a netnews-less world.

The flaws were that it took over two minutes on a dreamplug to generate
a new entry via the perl cgi interface at the time I was trying it (about a
year ago), on a reasonably complex wiki.

I ended up doing web editing via a separate server, which then pushed
via rsync, the changes back to the gateway. I would hope that this process
has been sped up - or that I was merely screwing up how new files were
generated, at the time.

The other flaw was that I really wanted a local search engine and never
settled on one. There are multiple choices available...

A third flaw is that on my latest project, which is on a smaller box
than the dreamplug (16MB flash/64MB ram), perl is simply too big to fit on
the box, so I wish ikiwiki's concept was written in lua rather than perl.

git as a back-end rocks.

>
>>
>> Thanks for your time,
>> Nick
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
>> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
>> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss



-- 
Dave T?ht
SKYPE: davetaht
US Tel: 1-239-829-5608
FR Tel: 0638645374
http://www.bufferbloat.net


From tzewang.dorje at gmail.com  Tue Dec 27 13:37:58 2011
From: tzewang.dorje at gmail.com (Dan Ballance)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 13:37:58 +0000
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Wiki Engine for a DreamPlug?
In-Reply-To: <6d8e3b7a0afd320efe754650f7cca068@songbird.com>
References: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111227010800.GA5711@jones.dk>
	<6d8e3b7a0afd320efe754650f7cca068@songbird.com>
Message-ID: <CABgXHn_AWpaHJ3eRgM7e2jT21nTUD2yOu84HTS_uwuxMQwzmGA@mail.gmail.com>

Ikiwiki looks great - the only comment I would make is that (according to
the previously mentioned wiki comparison site) it doesn't seem to support
localisation. Can anyone confirm this?

Whilst I agree security needs to be a top priority, if we want these boxes
to be used widely in countries with oppressive regimes, then I think
localisation into many languages, or at least the ability for the user
community to do so, should be an important priority also.

Just my 2p, dan :)
 On 27 Dec 2011 04:45, "kent" <kent at songbird.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 08:08:00 +0700, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>
>> On 11-12-26 at 04:17pm, Nick Daly wrote:
>>
>>> I'm wondering what you'd recommend for a wiki engine on the DreamPlug?
>>>
>>
>> I recommend to avoid coding envorinments that encourage speedy and
>> "sloppy" coding with little or no care for security.  I am no expert in
>> that field, but would personally steer away from PHP, Ruby on rails and
>> Django.
>>
>
> Agree...
>
>  I recommend to aim for extreme efficiency in power concumption and
>> memory use.  Without having done any actual analysis on the matter, it
>> seems ideal to me to favor precompilation of static web pages over the
>> extremely common rendering on-the-fly from a general-purpose database.
>>
>
> Agree also...
>
>  Specifically, I would recommend Ikiwiki!
>>
>
> I would like to agree, because I like ikiwiki a lot, and it's what I use
> for my personal projects almost exclusively.  But I think ikiwiki is a
> piece of software that demands a certain amount of technical
> sophistication, and if the intent is to have something that the average
> citizen can easily use, it would be necessary to to set up a wrapper for
> some canned configurations, with a larger set of themes.
>
>  The FreedomBox Foundation uses Ikiwiki for their website.
>>
>> Ikiwiki comes with very few "themes" but visual style can be radically
>> changed: http://kobenhavnsdelebiler.dk/ (Freel free to examine its
>> source: http://source.delebilfonden.**dk/?p=website.git;a=blob;f=**README<http://source.delebilfonden.dk/?p=website.git;a=blob;f=README>)
>>
>
> Yes, but surely we don't expect the average user to be tweaking CSS etc?
>
> Don't get me wrong -- I think it would be great to use ikiwiki, but it
> would take some work to make it accessible to the average person, don't you
> think?
>
> I guess it depends on the use case, though.  If the intent is to provide a
> standard "Freedom Box Wiki" that comes preconfigured, then it would be
> great.
>
> Kent
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.**alioth.debian.org<Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org>
> http://lists.alioth.debian.**org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**
> freedombox-discuss<http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss>
>
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From mwild1 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 28 10:15:11 2011
From: mwild1 at gmail.com (Matthew Wild)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:15:11 +0000
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Wiki Engine for a DreamPlug?
In-Reply-To: <CAA93jw5ifY9EyrdAAkjM55wYMkh2Me1znv_S6es_qpTO7hAYNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM-YhhAnvSrzJfRHT8WV5f9m4pC10LMQSwAXxxxnw7AmdV=GSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKaEYh+gdoorkHvGQY8pKOCpqLQ5X+E=Q4XQtLFLpZ-LYe5t4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAA93jw5ifY9EyrdAAkjM55wYMkh2Me1znv_S6es_qpTO7hAYNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJt9-x4jFce__m2Vjt-m8_YOKbiTJfLhbtNDD8oHbZp58SWVsg@mail.gmail.com>

On 27 December 2011 13:07, Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
>

>
> A third flaw is that on my latest project, which is on a smaller box
> than the dreamplug (16MB flash/64MB ram), perl is simply too big to fit on
> the box, so I wish ikiwiki's concept was written in lua rather than perl.
>

I can't say I've used it myself yet, but you may be interested in
nanoki: http://alt.textdrive.com/nanoki/

Small wiki engine written in Lua.

Regards,
Matthew


From marc at let.de  Wed Dec 28 10:34:25 2011
From: marc at let.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Marc_Manthey_=28macbroadcast_=EF=A3=BF=29?=)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 11:34:25 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Bitcoin Conference - David Birch - Next
	Generation Money
Message-ID: <DA939F70-E69D-4E09-8B6A-10295FBE050A@let.de>

Just stumbled over this intersting talk, sound isnt very good but gets  
a bit better later......

http://youtu.be/PhPZv8nOq5o

greetings


Marc


--  Les enfants teribbles - research / deployment
Marc Manthey- Vogelsangerstrasse 97
50823 K?ln - Germany
Tel.:0049-221-29891489
Mobil:0049-1577-3329231
web: http://let.de
project : http://stattfernsehen.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/macbroadcast/
facebook: http://www.facebook.com/opencu

Please think about your responsibility towards our environment: Each  
printed e-mail causes about 0.3 grams of CO2 per page.

Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and  
certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).









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From melvincarvalho at gmail.com  Wed Dec 28 11:27:32 2011
From: melvincarvalho at gmail.com (Melvin Carvalho)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:27:32 +0100
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Bitcoin Conference - David Birch - Next
 Generation Money
In-Reply-To: <DA939F70-E69D-4E09-8B6A-10295FBE050A@let.de>
References: <DA939F70-E69D-4E09-8B6A-10295FBE050A@let.de>
Message-ID: <CAKaEYhLj6S5xNC2aCuWr8Kg-RJuYEC-KPsXZyOBfvszLy5or0A@mail.gmail.com>

On 28 December 2011 11:34, Marc Manthey (macbroadcast ?) <marc at let.de> wrote:
> Just stumbled over this intersting talk, sound isnt very good but gets a bit
> better later......
>
> http://youtu.be/PhPZv8nOq5o

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

I actually was at this conference but missed this talk :)

I believe more vids will be released in the coming weeks.

>
> greetings
>
>
> Marc
>
>
> -- ?Les enfants teribbles - research / deployment
> Marc Manthey- Vogelsangerstrasse 97
> 50823 K?ln - Germany
> Tel.:0049-221-29891489
> Mobil:0049-1577-3329231
> web:?http://let.de
> project : http://stattfernsehen.com
> twitter:?http://twitter.com/macbroadcast/
> facebook:?http://www.facebook.com/opencu
>
> Please?think about your?responsibility?towards our
> environment:?Each?printed?e-mail?causes?about?0.3 grams of?CO2?per?page.
>
> Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and
> certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss


From nick.m.daly at gmail.com  Thu Dec 29 03:56:14 2011
From: nick.m.daly at gmail.com (Nick Daly)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:56:14 -0600
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] :Configuration: Next Steps?
Message-ID: <87hb0krpy9.fsf@debian.home>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi folks, I've been thinking of taking on one of three sub-projects for
the FBX, and was unsure which would be most helpful at this point, or
(more importantly) if there was anyone else also working on these or
similar projects?

1. Completing/perfecting the dpkg web-config front-end.

   This seems necessary if we want people to be able to manage their
   FBXs from the internal web-server, which I think we do.  I know there
   was mention, on the mailing list, of a project in motion a while ago,
   but it was incomplete or abandoned, as I recall.

2. Moving the FBX setup scripts to Plinth (if it can yet support system
   configuration), or another web-frontend (Pylons/Pyramid?).

   Would Plinth be able to handle the job?  Is anybody else working on a
   similar setup-in-the-browser project that I could join?

   This will need to be done at some point, and my setup scripts are
   starting to get too unwieldy for their current form.  I wrote them in
   Bash so they'd be easy to hack on; no other reason.  In Bash, each
   line *is* the command executed, so it's trivial to change the
   scripts' function.  However, their structure is starting to outweigh
   their function.  Bash is notably terrible at handling structure.

3. Add a wiki to my plugserver setup scripts.

   I don't really need help with this one, but will prioritize it based
   on any feedback I get.

Folk, thanks for any comments, feedback, or direction you can offer.
E-cookies to anybody who's already working on any of these :)

Nick
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From dr at jones.dk  Thu Dec 29 04:26:54 2011
From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:26:54 +0700
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] :Configuration: Next Steps?
In-Reply-To: <87hb0krpy9.fsf@debian.home>
References: <87hb0krpy9.fsf@debian.home>
Message-ID: <20111229042654.GB5371@jones.dk>

On 11-12-28 at 09:56pm, Nick Daly wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi folks, I've been thinking of taking on one of three sub-projects for
> the FBX, and was unsure which would be most helpful at this point, or
> (more importantly) if there was anyone else also working on these or
> similar projects?
> 
> 1. Completing/perfecting the dpkg web-config front-end.
> 
>    This seems necessary if we want people to be able to manage their
>    FBXs from the internal web-server, which I think we do.  I know there
>    was mention, on the mailing list, of a project in motion a while ago,
>    but it was incomplete or abandoned, as I recall.

I think working on above would be most beneficial of the three you list, 
because it is linking directly to the Debian packaging work, which means 
after this one is done we should be able to very concretely file 
wishlist bugreports against Debian packages that we want to offer 
certain configuration options for our needs.  Or start package 
meta-packages which hooks into other packages and is interacted with 
from debconf.

Reason tying with Debian developers is so important (in case some 
wonder) is that we then do not need to maintain our FreedomBox specific 
inventions long-term but can pass on the maintainance to Debian.  Debian 
has an obvious interest in adopting such changes as most likely the 
options we need are quite usable in other scenarios as well (think 
FreedomPhone, FreedomServer, FreedomDesktop, etc... for some options and 
funnyBox, whateverBox, etc... for other options).

If you want a bigger challenge than above work on user side of debconf, 
and have some understanding of the inner workings of debconf and the 
Debian Policy regarding config file and conffiles (which are not 
equal!), then I strongly believe that improvements in integrating 
debconf with Config::Model will make it easier to convince more Debian 
developers to use debconf at all. More info on that here: 
http://wiki.debian.org/PackageConfigUpgrade



> 2. Moving the FBX setup scripts to Plinth (if it can yet support system
>    configuration), or another web-frontend (Pylons/Pyramid?).
> 
>    Would Plinth be able to handle the job?  Is anybody else working on 
>    a similar setup-in-the-browser project that I could join?
> 
>    This will need to be done at some point, and my setup scripts are 
>    starting to get too unwieldy for their current form.  I wrote them 
>    in Bash so they'd be easy to hack on; no other reason.  In Bash, 
>    each line *is* the command executed, so it's trivial to change the 
>    scripts' function.  However, their structure is starting to 
>    outweigh their function.  Bash is notably terrible at handling 
>    structure.

If Plinth is designed with debconf integration in mind, it probably 
makes good sense to work on this, as I hear it is in active development.  
If not, I am concerned if it will cause FreedomBox to drift too far from 
Debian, and therefore require more man-power for long-term maintainance. 
Look at the pace of actual development going on now, and imagine the 
slowdown when the contributions needed are more tedious maintainance 
tasks!!!


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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From sullivan at freedomboxfoundation.org  Thu Dec 29 16:08:29 2011
From: sullivan at freedomboxfoundation.org (Ian Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:08:29 -0500
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Facebook as public health crisis
Message-ID: <4EFC907D.1080307@freedomboxfoundation.org>

>From Cory Doctorow's CCC keynote "The coming war on general
computation", which may be generally interesting to people on this list,
comes an interesting phrasing of the dangers of Facebook. This begins
during ~min 37 from the QA portion of the speech :

>I think the think about Facebook is that it works incredibly well, it
just fails very badly. So >all the things it's good at, it's really good
at but when it fails it destroys your personal life or >it allows all of
your friends to be rounded up by the Syrian secret police and tourtured
and >murdered, or whatever, right? There's lots of ways in which
Facebook is unfit for purpose >but we have to understand why people use
it, they  use it because it works well, and if we >want to convince
people that proprietary or difficult technologies are likely to bite
them in >the ass in the future, we have to convey to them its failure
modes, and that's the tricky >thing.
>
>Of course, this is not a new problem to computers, although maybe the
stakes are a little >higher, this is the problem of smoking, right? If
you got cancer as soon as you put the >cigarette in your mouth, no one
would put a second cigarette in their mouth. I smoked for >half my life.
When I went to quit, my doctor said "You need a better reason than not
>getting cancer in 30 years, because next week when you crave a
cigarette,  not getting >cancer in 30 years won't keep you warm at
night." What I actually did was realize that I >was spending two laptops
a year on cigarettes and so I just said I'll buy myself a laptop a >year
every year from here on if I give up smoking, and I did and that kind of
helped. But we >need to help people understand, the problem that I find
is that we tend to attack people >on the upside, we say "Oh, Apple's
integration isn't as good as you think it is" or >"Facebook isn't as
entertaining as you think it is" and in fact they are. I think what we
need >to convey is all the ways in which it fails that are not
immediately obvious at the outset >and that's a hard problem.


From sandyinchina at gmail.com  Sat Dec 31 02:42:13 2011
From: sandyinchina at gmail.com (Sandy Harris)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:42:13 +0800
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Doctorow on the war on general-purpose
	computing
Message-ID: <CACXcFmneC=hTce2B7wSk=t0Ez0Vm8haA==wOZ8P2bmoCs1Bxqw@mail.gmail.com>

As I see it, much of the reason for the Freedom Box is to avoid
what he is talking about.

Video:
http://boingboing.net/2011/12/27/the-coming-war-on-general-purp.html

Transcript:
https://github.com/jwise/28c3-doctorow/blob/master/transcript.md


From slothpuck at gmail.com  Sat Dec 31 15:05:23 2011
From: slothpuck at gmail.com (lee jones)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 15:05:23 +0000
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] Starting from the beginning -- which "box" to
	run freedom box on?
Message-ID: <CAKwpmoL036qoW+uwy3v3z3Fojh4yzUM5MWBMe4gXfLCwhDVttQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all!

I must say that freedombox looks like a pretty good idea, and I've listened
to several (on-line) lectures about it. A small box that can keep your
privacy and security with you (and not some company somewhere spying on you
or even goverment) is definately a good idea.

I understand that it is early days for the software to run on a freedombox,
but I was wondering - which - if any of the devices that are currently
avaliable can be used properly as a fully fledged freedombox.

I know this sounds almost like a stupid question but the only reason I ask
is because I'm finding at least some of the potential devices to contain at
least some sort of propietary software.

For example the rasberry pi looks like a good idea and I've heard good
things about it. Unfortunatly from what I can gather either its video or
boot procedure is propietary. The same may be even true for the dreamplug
(e.g. http://www.plugcomputer.org/plugforum/index.php?topic=6007.0 ) . Note
the wlan driver is listed as "Marvell Propietary".

The same sorts of problem (and I know this is a little OT) also exist on
some ARM netbooks, e.g. the efika MX smartbook (which comes with ubuntu)
has propietary video drivers which can mean problems if you don't want to
use the default install (i.e. *very* slow video performance without
propietary components).

It almost seems like a bit of a problem in the non-x86 world - namely
devices have propietary software parts which mean using anything other than
the "blessed" gnu/linux distro (if they have one) will mean serious
problems (as if your software is propietary chances are you won't be able
to compile that part or piece of software on your distro).

To my mind this limits the amount of currently avaliable boxes that could
run the freedombox software by quite a large margin.

Are there any new plug computer boxes being created at the moment that
don't have any of these nasty propietary bits in at all?

ljones
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From thomas at thomasruddy.org  Sat Dec 31 17:11:21 2011
From: thomas at thomasruddy.org (Thomas Ruddy)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:11:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Freedombox-discuss] The Freedom Box at the Chaos Communication
	Congress, Berlin
Message-ID: <1325351481.50541.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Dear all,

The Fbx was featured at the CCC Congress in Berlin on 2011 Dec. 28 in a lightning talk. The five-minute presentation was based on slides provided with permission by James Vasile, to whom credit was given. It was received well by the 200 persons present. It comes here (the second one after Mitch Altman's),
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uUb81CmsOk&feature=related

It was followed by a workshop held in a small room, which filled up with 30 persons. Several cryptographers were present at the workshop, and they were allowed to pursue a discussion of such specialized issues as using the wireless function of Freedom Boxes to generate keys. One participant had extensive experience with plug computers, and addressed the heat issue. 

Another participant, apparently accompanied by his wife, recalled the travails of a police search of their house. The rest of James Vasile's slides were presented and the Dreamplug was demonstrated.  Pagekite was used to get access to the Dreamplug located behind routers and firewalls. 

The developer of one of the three leading Fbx prototypes, Nick.M.Daly at gmail.com , was available on Jabber chat to field more any difficult questions that came up. We discussed whether disk encryption would be possible given the requirement that Freedom Boxes have to be self-booting devices in amateurs' hands, and the applicability of Tahoe LAFS to the problem of encrypted storage.

A useful overview of all lightning talks can be found here, http://events.ccc.de/congress/2011/wiki/Lightning_Talks

Thomas