[Freedombox-discuss] FreedomBox/Unhosted/PageKite for Access Innovation Prize 2012

Melvin Carvalho melvincarvalho at gmail.com
Sun Jul 1 21:43:43 UTC 2012 

On 1 July 2012 23:40, Markus Sabadello <markus.sabadello at gmail.com> wrote:

> I guess one question is whether the FreedomBox should have SPARQL or some
> other semantic query language.
> Or is it good enough to simply be able to get/put entire Linked Data
> documents just like any other files.
>
> I would tend to say it would be nice to have both
>

Makes sense, and any features the data store doesnt have, that people want,
we can just patch

It's much easier to roll out new features to freedombox, for example, than
CouchDB


>
> Markus
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 11:23 PM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 1 July 2012 23:03, Markus Sabadello <markus.sabadello at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Melvin Carvalho <
>>> melvincarvalho at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1 July 2012 19:44, Markus Sabadello <markus.sabadello at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, having your own data on the FreedomBox via remoteStorage is
>>>>> exactly the core of the proposal.
>>>>> That, plus potentially integration with the FunkFeuer community
>>>>> wireless network in Vienna.
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay I have to say this..
>>>>> We haven't submitted the proposal yet.
>>>>> If for some reason this is not a good idea,
>>>>> if this looks like an attempt to "hijack" FreedomBox, or "capitalize"
>>>>> on it, or anything like that,
>>>>> if there already is some sort of relationship between FreedomBox and
>>>>> Access that makes this proposal pointless,
>>>>> then we don't have to submit it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was just an idea we came up with.
>>>>> It would effectively show ONE thing the FreedomBox could do (out of many
>>>>> ideas<http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/freedombox-discuss/2012-May/003867.html>,
>>>>> including social networking).
>>>>> It would show how different projects (FreedomBox, Unhosted, PageKite,
>>>>> FunkFeuer) could complement each other.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we should at least wait until the hackfest is over, maybe
>>>>> longer, before we submit it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Makes sense to wait for feedback from the hackfest.
>>>>
>>>> Storing my own data (on my own box) is something I find very
>>>> interesting.  But as far as I know I'm one of the only people that does
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> Im curious as to what solutions you might suggest for the data storage,
>>>> and what features are avaiable?  ( personally I use data.fm )
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hmm we would want to be compatible with Unhosted's remoteStorage API,
>>> which does not include Linked Data.
>>> ownCloud might be an obvious option, but that's PHP.
>>> Bjarni wrote a simple implementation of remoteStorage in Python (here<https://github.com/pagekite/plugins-pyUnhosted>),
>>> which might fit in better with other Python-based FreedomBox components,
>>> but that's more limited than ownCloud.
>>>
>>> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but data.fm is read/write Linked Data
>>> and not compatible with Unhosted's remoteStorage, right?
>>>
>>> In any case, the FreedomBox will need a flexible storage API for the
>>> various apps that would run on it.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it could support ownCloud/remoteStorage on one hand, but also
>>> read/write Linked Data like data.fm, which would be like what WebBox is
>>> also all about, as I understand.
>>> Perhaps remoteStorage could be modified to also work with data.fm, I
>>> don't know that.
>>>
>>
>> I believe all of remotestorage, owncloud and data.fm support WebDAV, so
>> that's perhaps a start.
>>
>> Freedombox has the advantage everyone using the standard package can have
>> a pretty decent data store, rather than, having to cater for many different
>> providers.  These means the lowest common denominator can be that much
>> higher.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Markus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Melvin Carvalho <
>>>>> melvincarvalho at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30 June 2012 14:07, Markus Sabadello <markus.sabadello at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To be honest, I have never built a Debian package nor am I deeply
>>>>>>> familiar with the process.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But all the pieces we're considering have Debian packages, i.e.
>>>>>>> PageKite, OLSRd, and for Unhosted there is OwnCloud, which has been
>>>>>>> considered a number of times on this list already.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There really isn't much new about the proposal, just to help
>>>>>>> assemble a few things to the point where they can be demo'd at events and
>>>>>>> understood by end-users.
>>>>>>> It would help show the public that FreedomBox is real..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the response.  A couple of questions about the proposal:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the idea here to save your own data (ie remote storage) on your
>>>>>> freedom box?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would a minimal viable product, to demo FreedomBox, need to contain
>>>>>> some kind of social network?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Markus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Melvin Carvalho <
>>>>>>> melvincarvalho at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 30 June 2012 13:03, Markus Sabadello <markus at projectdanube.org>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Heya,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So back in May, when I did a FreedomBox-related demo<http://blog.projectdanube.org/2012/05/freedombox-at-the-internet-identity-workshop/>at the Internet Identity Workshop, I was made aware of the Access movement,
>>>>>>>>> which hosted the recent RightsCon and is also doing a lot of other great
>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They are now calling for proposals for the Access Innovation Prize<https://www.accessnow.org/prize>where you can win $20k.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So Michiel of Unhosted, Bjarni of PageKite, and myself have
>>>>>>>>> decided to submit a proposal, which would include building a simple
>>>>>>>>> FreedomBox prototype that runs an Unhosted "remoteStorage" component and
>>>>>>>>> PageKite to make it accessible from the open web. Also, the idea is to try
>>>>>>>>> integrate FreedomBox with the local FunkFeuer community mesh network in
>>>>>>>>> Vienna. We haven't submitted the proposal yet (deadline is August 15th),
>>>>>>>>> but here's the current text we're working on:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://projectdanube.pbworks.com/w/page/54796496/Access%20Innovation%20Prize%202012
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Basically, the idea is that you could use any Unhosted-enabled web
>>>>>>>>> application out there, and your data remains on your FreedomBox.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know that on the other thread there's a discussion about
>>>>>>>>> leadership and about joining in.
>>>>>>>>> I had all these questions too since I started working with
>>>>>>>>> FreedomBox, e.g. when I did demos, I wasn't sure to what extent I could
>>>>>>>>> speak "officially" about FreedomBox, how I could get involved, etc.
>>>>>>>>> In light of current criticism and allegations of vaporware, I
>>>>>>>>> think the answer is simply that everybody with ideas and resources should
>>>>>>>>> try to get something done in whatever way works.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, so if we win the prize, then this could serve a few
>>>>>>>>> purposes..
>>>>>>>>> 1. The three of us would have some $$$ to actively work and
>>>>>>>>> contribute to the FreedomBox at least for a little while.
>>>>>>>>> 2. The stuff we would work on (putting Unhosted and PageKite on
>>>>>>>>> the box) seems to align well with the "DropBox Replacement" idea that has
>>>>>>>>> been floating around.
>>>>>>>>> 3. We would have an actual (limited functionality, but working)
>>>>>>>>> FreedomBox, and a minimal viable product that can be demo'd at conferences.
>>>>>>>>> 4. The prize would mean a PR boost for the involved projects.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you think..?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Will there be a debian package for this prototype?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Markus
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Project Danube: http://projectdanube.org
>>>>>>>>> Personal Data Ecosystem Consortium:
>>>>>>>>> http://personaldataecosystem.org/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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