[Freedombox-discuss] FreedomBox/Unhosted/PageKite for Access Innovation Prize 2012

Fri Jul 6 11:27:32 UTC 2012

On 1 July 2012 23:17, Michiel de Jong <michiel at unhosted.org> wrote:

> IMO, applications support linked data, storage servers do not. Asking
> if a storage server supports linked data is a bit like asking whether
> a certain hard drive supports pdf. :)
>
> Having said that, there are always connotations, and that is probably
> what you are both referring to - so for instance, if you ask if the
> remoteStorage protocol supports ACLs based on client-side
> certificates, or SPARQL queries, the answer is no.
>
> We are however in the process of writing the data module for the
> client-side library (remoteStorage.js), and they will all use linked
> data at their core (specifically, json-ld).
>

I do agree that it's useful to have client side data in structured form.

However, it's more important to have structured data on back end.

If remotestorage is simply going to put a blob in a location ... ie the
equivalent of autosave ... it's going to be a very useful tool for some web
apps, but it makes little sense on a freedombox, imho.

Consider modern (or even less modern) databases.  They can handle a blob in
a field.  But it's much better to use a table with fields, as this enables
querying, cross referencing, federation and all those good things.

I can see a great dyndns solution being VERY valuable to freedombox.  If
pagekite can provide that, it's a huge win.

>
>
> hth,
> Michiel
>
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Markus Sabadello
> <markus.sabadello at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Melvin Carvalho <
> melvincarvalho at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1 July 2012 19:44, Markus Sabadello <markus.sabadello at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Yes, having your own data on the FreedomBox via remoteStorage is
> exactly
> >>> the core of the proposal.
> >>> That, plus potentially integration with the FunkFeuer community
> wireless
> >>> network in Vienna.
> >>>
> >>> Okay I have to say this..
> >>> We haven't submitted the proposal yet.
> >>> If for some reason this is not a good idea,
> >>> if this looks like an attempt to "hijack" FreedomBox, or "capitalize"
> on
> >>> it, or anything like that,
> >>> if there already is some sort of relationship between FreedomBox and
> >>> Access that makes this proposal pointless,
> >>> then we don't have to submit it.
> >>>
> >>> It was just an idea we came up with.
> >>> It would effectively show ONE thing the FreedomBox could do (out of
> many
> >>> ideas, including social networking).
> >>> It would show how different projects (FreedomBox, Unhosted, PageKite,
> >>> FunkFeuer) could complement each other.
> >>>
> >>> I think we should at least wait until the hackfest is over, maybe
> longer,
> >>> before we submit it.
> >>
> >>
> >> Makes sense to wait for feedback from the hackfest.
> >>
> >> Storing my own data (on my own box) is something I find very
> interesting.
> >> But as far as I know I'm one of the only people that does that.
> >>
> >> Im curious as to what solutions you might suggest for the data storage,
> >> and what features are avaiable?  ( personally I use data.fm )
> >
> >
> > Hmm we would want to be compatible with Unhosted's remoteStorage API,
> which
> > does not include Linked Data.
> > ownCloud might be an obvious option, but that's PHP.
> > Bjarni wrote a simple implementation of remoteStorage in Python (here),
> > which might fit in better with other Python-based FreedomBox components,
> but
> > that's more limited than ownCloud.
> >
> > Please correct me if I'm wrong, but data.fm is read/write Linked Data
> and
> > not compatible with Unhosted's remoteStorage, right?
> >
> > In any case, the FreedomBox will need a flexible storage API for the
> various
> > apps that would run on it.
> >
> > Perhaps it could support ownCloud/remoteStorage on one hand, but also
> > read/write Linked Data like data.fm, which would be like what WebBox is
> also
> > all about, as I understand.
> > Perhaps remoteStorage could be modified to also work with data.fm, I
> don't
> > know that.
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Markus
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Melvin Carvalho
> >>> <melvincarvalho at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 30 June 2012 14:07, Markus Sabadello <markus.sabadello at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To be honest, I have never built a Debian package nor am I deeply
> >>>>> familiar with the process.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But all the pieces we're considering have Debian packages, i.e.
> >>>>> PageKite, OLSRd, and for Unhosted there is OwnCloud, which has been
> >>>>> considered a number of times on this list already.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There really isn't much new about the proposal, just to help
> assemble a
> >>>>> few things to the point where they can be demo'd at events and
> understood by
> >>>>> end-users.
> >>>>> It would help show the public that FreedomBox is real..
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for the response.  A couple of questions about the proposal:
> >>>>
> >>>> Is the idea here to save your own data (ie remote storage) on your
> >>>> freedom box?
> >>>>
> >>>> Would a minimal viable product, to demo FreedomBox, need to contain
> some
> >>>> kind of social network?
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Markus
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Melvin Carvalho
> >>>>> <melvincarvalho at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 30 June 2012 13:03, Markus Sabadello <markus at projectdanube.org>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Heya,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So back in May, when I did a FreedomBox-related demo at the
> Internet
> >>>>>>> Identity Workshop, I was made aware of the Access movement, which
> hosted the
> >>>>>>> recent RightsCon and is also doing a lot of other great work.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> They are now calling for proposals for the Access Innovation Prize
> >>>>>>> where you can win $20k.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So Michiel of Unhosted, Bjarni of PageKite, and myself have decided
> >>>>>>> to submit a proposal, which would include building a simple
> FreedomBox
> >>>>>>> prototype that runs an Unhosted "remoteStorage" component and
> PageKite to
> >>>>>>> make it accessible from the open web. Also, the idea is to try
> integrate
> >>>>>>> FreedomBox with the local FunkFeuer community mesh network in
> Vienna. We
> >>>>>>> haven't submitted the proposal yet (deadline is August 15th), but
> here's the
> >>>>>>> current text we're working on:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> http://projectdanube.pbworks.com/w/page/54796496/Access%20Innovation%20Prize%202012
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Basically, the idea is that you could use any Unhosted-enabled web
> >>>>>>> application out there, and your data remains on your FreedomBox.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I know that on the other thread there's a discussion about
> leadership
> >>>>>>> and about joining in.
> >>>>>>> I had all these questions too since I started working with
> >>>>>>> FreedomBox, e.g. when I did demos, I wasn't sure to what extent I
> could
> >>>>>>> speak "officially" about FreedomBox, how I could get involved, etc.
> >>>>>>> In light of current criticism and allegations of vaporware, I think
> >>>>>>> the answer is simply that everybody with ideas and resources
> should try to
> >>>>>>> get something done in whatever way works.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Anyway, so if we win the prize, then this could serve a few
> >>>>>>> purposes..
> >>>>>>> 1. The three of us would have some $$$ to actively work and
> >>>>>>> contribute to the FreedomBox at least for a little while.
> >>>>>>> 2. The stuff we would work on (putting Unhosted and PageKite on the
> >>>>>>> box) seems to align well with the "DropBox Replacement" idea that
> has been
> >>>>>>> floating around.
> >>>>>>> 3. We would have an actual (limited functionality, but working)
> >>>>>>> FreedomBox, and a minimal viable product that can be demo'd at
> conferences.
> >>>>>>> 4. The prize would mean a PR boost for the involved projects.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What do you think..?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Will there be a debian package for this prototype?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Markus
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Project Danube: http://projectdanube.org
> >>>>>>> Personal Data Ecosystem Consortium:
> http://personaldataecosystem.org/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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