<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><span>Hi Petter,</span></div>I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Cables includes within it the subset of features you need for fbx <-> fbx communication resistant to meta-data snooping. What does your proposed system do that Cables does not?<br><br>Also, I didn't know it was still under active development. I should add that AFAICT it hasn't been peer-reviewed, which is unfortunate (but fixable, all you research folks out there...)<br><br>-Jonathan<br><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;
font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Sunday, October 12, 2014 2:33 AM, Petter Reinholdtsen <pere@hungry.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container">[Jonathan Wilkes]<br clear="none">> Hi Petter,You should look at something like Cables in Linux Liberte.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Are you talking about <URL: <a shape="rect" href="http://dee.su/liberte" target="_blank">http://dee.su/liberte </a>>?<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> But the only reason Cables theoretically* works is that everything<br clear="none">> is delivered over Tor, and it typically runs on a machine where Tor<br clear="none">> is being leveraged for everything. That at least gives the user<br clear="none">> some protection if the email client happens to be doing something<br clear="none">> screwy that the author of Cables didn't know about.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> With
your proposal, you have to trust that both exim and whatever<br clear="none">> email client not only don't have bugs. But more importantly, you<br clear="none">> must know that your rules for when to sending/receiving over Tor are<br clear="none">> perfect, _and_ that your documentation is effective enough to teach<br clear="none">> your users not to mix, forward, leak, or otherwise undermine all the<br clear="none">> work you are trying to do to hide their metadata. Oh, and keep in<br clear="none">> mind that most clients do a fine job of hiding nearly all of the<br clear="none">> ugly metadata from the user, so they're often not even aware it's<br clear="none">> there in the first place.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> In short, if you let your users send unencrypted messages in the<br clear="none">> same client/system as covert messages, your users won't be safe.<br clear="none">> And if you force
encryption for everything, you defeat the purpose<br clear="none">> of using email and should instead choose a protocol/system designed<br clear="none">> specifically to hide metadata.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Thanks for the input. I'm not sure we are looking at the same threat<br clear="none">model here. The information leak I try to get rid of is metadata<br clear="none">being available to everyone listening on the network traffic between<br clear="none">two people sending an email between each other. I do not quite see<br clear="none">how bugs in exim and email clients can affect this.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I suspect you talk about making sure no-one, even well funded and<br clear="none">targeting attacers, can ever get access to information about the user<br clear="none">and her email habits. That is a harder problem to address.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Btw, I also came across <br
clear="none"><URL: <a shape="rect" href="http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/Projects/exim-tor-hidden-mail" target="_blank">http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/Projects/exim-tor-hidden-mail </a>><br clear="none">when searching for people with similar ideas. The recipe there<br clear="none">definitely look like something we could set up on the Freedombox.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> * I've never used Cables, and it looks to be abandoned. But its <br clear="none">> features and design are the most comprehensive I've seen for the kind of<br clear="none">> messaging you're interested in doing.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Is <URL: <a shape="rect" href="https://github.com/mkdesu/cables" target="_blank">https://github.com/mkdesu/cables </a>> the upstream project page?<br clear="none">It seem to be modified just a few months ago.<div class="yqt6806249885" id="yqtfd24838"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br
clear="none">Happy hacking<br clear="none">Petter Reinholdtsen<br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Freedombox-discuss mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org" href="mailto:Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org">Freedombox-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>