[gopher] Hello Gopher Project

Mon Dec 15 22:48:04 UTC 2014

On Dec 15, 2014, at 17:29, Kevin Veroneau <kevin at veroneau.net> wrote:

> Thank for everyone for voicing your feedback on Markdown.  The only
> reason I thought of using a new item type was that detecting if a
> plain-text file is Markdown or not isn't easy...  In fact, the only
> sure fire way to detect it is either by extension or mime-type.  I was
> going by the latter using a new Gopher type, although many of you have
> voiced against this idea.  So, the natural way to do this, would be to
> use item type "0", and force a file extension on any documents are that
> Markdown-compatible.
> 
> As for "flavors", I am personally only aware of one, the flavor of the
> "author of Markdown", and I always reference it's website's documentation
> located here:
> http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax
> 
> This would be the exact syntax any parser I'd support would strictly
> follow, none of those other flavors, I never heard of.  From my
> experience with Markdown, this syntax works on every single parser I
> have used.  I'd personally prefer it if the author say had an example
> Markdown document that can be used to easily compare parsers against
> this exact syntax.
> 
> You can enable Markdown ".md" file viewing support in Firefox, which is
> confirmed to work alongside the awesome OverbiteFF project by
> installing this Firefox Add-on:
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/markdown-viewer/
> 
> Just install the Add-on, and create a "0" item type with the extension
> of ".md" on your Gopherhole.  If you don't have the Add-on installed,
> it will gracefully fallback to plain text and still render "readable".
> 
> I will update the Overbite for Android client to mimic the same
> behavior, and will no longer depend on the "m" item type for rendering
> Markdown text-files.
> 
> Later this week, I will see about putting together an actual spec sheet
> of the Markdown parser, basically, a model Markdown document that can
> be used to make sure every supported Markdown element renders across
> all supported Gopher browsers that include Markdown support.  It will
> utilize all the syntax outlined in the documentation link I provided
> above.
> 
> One of the reasons I also want to support Markdown, is that I am
> planning on making SCM gateways for Gopher that anybody can download
> and use on their Gopherhole.  So, your visitors will be-able to
> transparently access your Subversion, Mercurial, and of course Git
> repositories right from Gopherspace.  I also want to start blogging
> more on Gopherspace, but don't like just using plain-text, nor do I
> want to ever use HTML on Gopherspace.  A good middleground that will
> please even the most hardcore Gopher user is to use Markdown.  This
> way, my visitors aren't forced to load a large HTML document, nor are
> my visitors forced to just look at boring plain-text.
> 
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:49:59 +0400
> Driedfruit <driedfruit at mindloop.net> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:37:52 -0800 (PST)
>> Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I've got the idea (but I may be wrong here) that there were
>>>> several, not exactly compatible, versions of markdown.
>>> 
>> 
>> As someone relatively invested in Markdown, I thought I'd chime in.
>> 
>> It sadly is true, that all those markdown parsers out there are
>> semi-incompatible with each other. And the parser authors DO
>> communicate and DO try to work out a middle-ground, it's just that it
>> has grown into multiple directions too fast.
>> 
>> Not counting "addons" (i.e. markup for forms, tables, etc), even the
>> basic principle of what makes a paragraph differs. Some times it's
>> double new line, sometimes single new line, etc.
>> 
>> (And FYI, those "versions" are commonly known as "flavors" in Markdown
>> parlance, i.e. "github-flavored markdown", "stack overflow-flavored
>> markdown", etc)
>> 
>>> I'm not sure of their intercompatibility, but this was one of the
>>> things I was concerned about. I don't really want to be maintaining a
>>> Markdown parser on top of a gopher client.
>>> 
>>> I like the Markdown concept, mind you, and if someone's system can
>>> handle Markdown (such as through an addon), I think it's a reasonable
>>> thing to support as long as it degrades gracefully on other systems.
>>> I'm not sure I'd like to burn an item type on it, however, especially
>>> since it displays just fine as 0 (perhaps clients supporting it can
>>> offer a toggle).
>>> 
>> 
>> For me, the best part of Markdown is that it *IS* plain text. For that
>> reason, I really dislike the usage of ".md" extension in some places,
>> IMHO, a good old ".txt" (or NO EXTENSION) makes more sense.
>> 
>> I would agree that Markdown and gopher were meant for each other (i.e.
>> serve MD to gopherhole, serve MD->parsed_as_html to http blog), but,
>> yeah, new type is definitly not needed.
>> 
>> -- 
>> driedfruit
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Gopher-Project at lists.alioth.debian.org
>> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gopher-project
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best Regards,
>  Kevin Veroneau
>  Kevin Veroneau Consulting Services
>  kevin at veroneau.net
>  https://www.veroneau.net/
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best Regards,
>  Kevin Veroneau
>  Kevin Veroneau Consulting Services
>  kevin at veroneau.net
>  https://www.veroneau.net/
> 

A quick look at the man page for pandoc shows it translates a few versions of Markdown itself.  Each of the flavors has advantages/disadvantages.  As a reduced HTML, some harmonization is still needed.

Plain text, if well written, is never boring.  Markup merely controls formatting of presentation.

Stephen Michael Kellat 
Member, LoCo Council (Ubuntu)
Member, Xubuntu Documentation/Xubuntu Team 
Point of Contact/Leader, Ubuntu Ohio 