<div dir="ltr">Hi Mateusz,<div><br></div><div>Interesting view you have :)</div><div><br></div><div>I must admit I do kind of feel the same way.</div><div>(Bearing in mind that I'm quite new!)</div><div><br></div><div>My 2c worth would be that:</div><div><br></div><div>a) We use UTF-8 across all of Gopherspace</div><div><br></div><div>and</div><div><br></div><div>b) We actually simplify the protocol and even remove some item types that make little to no sense. (e.g: Just one image itemtype)</div><div><br></div><div>I do agree however that the RFC *should* be about the protocol and make no suggestions about what implementations should and shouldn't do.</div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div>James</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><span style="border-collapse:collapse;color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:13px"><br><font face="arial, sans-serif">James Mills / prologic</font><br><br><font face="arial, sans-serif"></font><font face="'courier new', monospace">E: <a href="mailto:prologic@shortcircuit.net.au" style="color:rgb(0,0,204)" target="_blank">prologic@shortcircuit.net.au</a></font></span><div><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace;color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:13px">W: </span><a href="http://prologic.shortcircuit.net.au" style="font-family:'courier new',monospace;font-size:13px;color:rgb(0,0,204)" target="_blank">prologic.shortcircuit.net.au</a><br></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Mateusz Viste <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mateusz@viste.fr" target="_blank">mateusz@viste.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi all,<br>
<br>
Here is my personal opinion about this (and it's likely yo be my last message on this topic).<br>
I took a quick glance at the <a href="http://piratepad.net/gopher" target="_blank">piratepad.net/gopher</a> document, and I honestly think that it is a) unnecessary and b) quite messy.<br>
<br>
a) unnecessary - because I believe that the gopher protocol is very fine as it is, and needs no 'improvements'. It's cool, mostly because it's dead simple. Would it become any more convoluted, I'd loose interest in it. There is maybe one or two things that could be nice to have in gopher, but these doesn't require any protocol change (example: 'by default' usage of UTF-8 across the gopherspace).<br>
<br>
b) quite messy - the document mixes protocol aspects (gopher+ like stuff), with client-side pseudo algorithms, with suggestions about how a server should be built, and probably other stuff as well (I stopped reading at half of the document). An RFC shall describe one thing, and do it precisely. The document on <a href="http://piratepad.net" target="_blank">piratepad.net</a> looks more like a bag of wishes. Also, it describes the usage of some xml-like tags in gopher (title), which by itself, is a heresy to me. But anyway, even if said document had any resemblance to a serious RFC, I doubt it would be worth using IETF's valuable time on this.<br>
<br>
To sum up: I think that gopher is mostly fine as it is in it's current (RFC 1436) state, with the exception of a few very minor details, that IMO do not call for an RFC update anyway. I do not say that the said document is worthless - it does address a few good points, but I'd better see this incorporated into an updated gopher FAQ, rather than an actual RFC.<br>
<br>
Mateusz<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/30/2014 06:12 PM, Nick Matavka wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hello, world!<br>
<br>
I think it might soon be time for submitting the updated Gopher RFC. In<br>
my belief, it should be within a month at most, as we have a very good<br>
document authored and edited by some of this mailing list's best minds<br>
(i.e. Kim Holviala, Matjaz Viste, Dr Kaiser, etc).<br>
<br>
But before the RFC is submitted, there are some organisational quirks<br>
that need to be fulfilled. I suppose I *could* submit the draft RFC<br>
(available at <a href="http://piratepad.net/gopher" target="_blank">http://piratepad.net/gopher</a>) as an independent document,<br>
but that would only be for informational purposes, rather than putting<br>
it on the standards track.<br>
<br>
I believe that what we currently have is a standard in a formative<br>
stage. This is not simply information, or quirky RFC engineering<br>
humour. This is the new standard for Next-Generation Gopher (call it<br>
GopherNG if you like, or Gopher++, I still haven't figured out a decent<br>
name for it). If I send this as an independent submission and credit<br>
everyone, it'll never be anything other than simple "information".<br>
<br>
The better way forward, at least in my view, is to submit it through the<br>
usual channels. This involves more work, some of which I concede that I<br>
am not familiar with. For instance, there will need to be a working<br>
group; I propose that this mailing list become one. but it needs a<br>
charter and it needs to be listed on the IETF's page, which is the part<br>
of the job I'm ignorant of (can't find the link to submit a working<br>
group for instance).<br>
<br>
So I guess you can take this as a request for help. Has anyone ever<br>
been through the IETF's Kafka-esque methods of working yet? Can you<br>
elucidate them for me? Should this simply be informational maybe?<br>
<br>
Cordially yours,<br>
N. Edward Matavka<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
Gopher-Project mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gopher-Project@lists.alioth.debian.org" target="_blank">Gopher-Project@lists.alioth.<u></u>debian.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gopher-project" target="_blank">http://lists.alioth.debian.<u></u>org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/<u></u>gopher-project</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>