[Pkg-kde-extras] Bug#883737: Bug#883737: Bug#883737: Bug#883737: gtk2-engines-oxygen: Please don't depend on gtk2

[Pino Toscano]

In data venerdì 8 dicembre 2017 14:46:57 CET, Jeremy Bicha ha scritto:
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Pino Toscano <pino at debian.org> wrote:
> > In general, I do not see the point in allowing "plugins for Foo" as
> > installable/installed when "Foo" is not.
> 
> I am also making a similar change for input methods. If a user is
> using ibus, they should not have to manually install ibus-gtk (the
> gtk2 version) if they later install a gtk2 app.

I'll reply later on on this.

> And I don't think it's a good idea to have gtk2 recommend every gtk2
> theme engine and input method.

Indeed, this is not feasible.

> > I see two possibilities in this case (feel free to add more, of course):
> 
> The problem here is a bit theoretical since there doesn't seem to be
> any gtk3 version of Oxygen (at least not in Debian) and therefore, the
> package is not very useful since most maintained gtk apps use gtk3
> now.

A gtk3 version of oxygen most probably would get its own package.

> So let me substitute with a better example:
> 
> c) In the near future, it will be possible to install Debian GNOME
> without gtk2 pre-installed. A Debian GNOME user installs the Numix
> theme and makes it their default theme. A few weeks later, the user
> decides to install a gtk2 app like Inkscape. I think it's wrong to
> require the user to manually install a theoretical numix-gtk2-theme
> package to fix their theming. I also think it's wrong to force a user
> to have gtk2 installed just because a theme they want to use happens
> to support gtk2.

To be honest, I do not see this as wrong case: while it is not something
clear for users, OTOH I do not think it is good to install themes and
plugins for libraries and frameworks, even if they are not installed by
default (and possibly not going to be used).  This is also for the case
mentioned above: I would not like that users have plugins for gtk2,
gtk3, qt4, qt5, ibus, scim, uim, etc, just because they might be used
at some point.  This IMHO is just a way to clutter the users' systems.

> Keeping gtk2 installed by default is a subtle suggestion to developers
> that it's ok for their app to use gtk2. But like qt4, it's not ok.

No (non-developer) users will install gtk2 directly, but they will get
it installed because they installed via an application written as gtk2.

> My proposal is a simple fix for these problems. While it looks a bit
> strange at first, it's a harmless change that fixes actual problems.

Here we disagree.  IMHO this is a workaround to the situation, not a
real solution.

> > There are various things that kubuntu does wrong, and that I needed to
> > fix in the past and in recent times. "kubuntu did it" is not a magical
> > sentence to bring the same mistakes also in Debian.
> 
> Ok, well the developer who made that change is Scott Kitterman who is
> a Debian Developer and not a Kubuntu developer any more.

Not relevant to the discussion.  I judge an idea from a technical POV,
not who made it.

-- 
Pino Toscano
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